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Well said, but you overlook the fact that many of those who object to Warren are not Christian, and many are not “simply religious.” At no point has Obama distanced himself with the Christian church, and yet many who voted for him feel as though he shares their disdain for it or owes them gratitude to the point that he must bend to their will regarding religious issues.

Comment by matthew on 1/20/09 at 1:51 pm

We are all children of God, made in his image. Thank you Rick Warren for your service and thank you Mr. Greenberg for this positive blog.

Comment by Dean on 1/20/09 at 1:57 pm

As a gay male, let me clarify here what my problem was (and still is) with Obama’s having given Rick Warren the high honor of delivering the invocation.

It had nothing to do with Warren’s support of Prop. 8 nor of his view that homosexuality is “wrong.”  I agree wholeheartedly with Obama’s position of including others whose viewpoints are different from ours.

But Warren went a huge step further: he denigrated and demeaned those of us whose viewpoint (and very lives) are different from his: he stated that a marriage between two consenting, loving and committed adults of the same gender was equivalent to pedophilia, promiscuity and incest.

To understand how we gays feel about this, imagine if, at a Presidential inauguration twenty years back, the minister invited to give the invocation was a staunch segregationist who stated publicly and continually that blacks were inferior to whites and that this was God’s plan of creation.

Yet giving this minister such a high honor was defended because “we need to include people of different viewpoints.”  Would blacks have borne this?  Why, then, should gays be expected to shrug off Warren’s honor.

Should Warren be included in councils, meetings, etc.?  Indisputably he should.

Should he be honored for demeaning people who see authentic love in a different form from the way he sees it?  Indisputably, he should not.

Comment by rubart on 1/20/09 at 2:27 pm

Rubart,you, and many in the media continue to say that what Warren did was “compare gay marriage with incest and pedophilia”, but this simply is not true. What Warren said was that accepting one as marriage might lead to the acceptance of another. He did not make a moral comparison of homosexuality, incest, or pedophilia.

This is not just an argument of semantics, it is basic logical analysis. His argument reads: If A, B is possible. This does not mean that B and A are morally equal in cases where B happens as the result of A.

Consider a situation where a town meeting is called due to budget shortfalls. A man stands up and says “we must cut two police officers to balance the budget.” Next, a man stands up and says “but when we had 2 less officers last year, we had a much higher murder rate.”

Did the second man accuse the first of murder? Did he argue that the cutting of 2 police officers is morally equivalent to murder? of course not. To argue that weakening the definition of the word “marriage” by adding homosexuals might lead to marriages between brothers and sisters in no way makes a moral comparison between the parties.

Comment by Matthew on 1/20/09 at 2:49 pm

What a beautiful prayer! May God bless our country.
Thank you Mr. Greenberg for this blog.

Comment by Andrea Miranda on 1/20/09 at 3:01 pm

Yes, I claim Christian faith.  Yes, I am an ordained minister.  Yes, all the God-talk at our secular government events is at best troubling, and at worst fuels those for whom god, God is on their countries side in a cosmic battle of good and evil.  Specifically, Rev. Warren didn’t understand his role, nor did Rev. Lowery, to speak on behalf of every citizen to a supreme being and not simply represent their own version of faith assuming that it is shared by everyone.  Warren’s use of the Lord’s prayer was theocratic and embarrassing for me.  I trust that accredited seminaries taped these to use as a learning tool about what a clergy person’s task is in these settings.  The altar of democracy demands more than the sermonizing, political prayer we received today.

Comment by Michael on 1/20/09 at 3:01 pm

I am just happy that pastor warren was not afraid to stand up for his religious beliefs and he prayed in the name of Jesus Christ, his saviour and Lord.  In a world where people try to silence our Chritian beliefs it is nice to know that someone didn’t back down and deny Christ in front of millions of people who may not share his beliefs.  Praise God for Pastor Warren and his courage.

Comment by Lynn Wilfong on 1/20/09 at 3:05 pm

Rick is to be commended for staying true to the truths that are written in the Bible. Gays need to read the whole of the Bible not selected sections - homosexuality is a sin, it is an obomination in the eyes of God (His words not mine). Like Rick I believe that God gave us the Bible and that it is all true - Thank you for staying faithful even when the world would attack you - better to stand with and for God than a godless world. One will pass away and He will stand forever.

Comment by Loretta on 1/20/09 at 3:11 pm

Thank you for this piece.  Obama’s choice of Warren was not controversial to the overwhelming majority of Americans.  It was only controversial to a strident, angry and overly vocal minority of Americans who, in the end, do not want “tolerance” or “equality”, as they say, but who want super-rights, and to silence anyone who disagrees with them.  Their reaction in California when Proposition 8 won—which reaction was all but ignored by the media—displayed nothing less than anti-religious bigotry and hatred.  They vandalized property, made threats, accosted people of faith, and simply could not stand the fact that the democratic process dealt them a defeat.  Mr. Obama’s choice of Warren shows that he is willing, hopefully, to rise above the nonsense and hype, and include ALL Americans in its future, including people of faith.

Comment by Peter on 1/20/09 at 3:12 pm

To me , a kenyan, The most significant part of the innauguration was Rick Warrens prayer. I thought I was strong and so far I have not been overly excited by the Obama celebrations here in Kenya. This though we share a common ancestry. But I found myself weeping hopelessly infront of my family as Pastor Rick Warren prayed.I was especially touched by the part where he stated the name of Jesus in different languages before the lords prayer-jointly said by everyone- “I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life—Yeshua, Esa, Jesus, Jesus—who taught us to pray:”!!!!

From then on I was 9and still am) all tears and can somehow empathise with all the suffering our brothers and sisters have undergone these many past years.

Please America, I Implore you, take this from someoone who comes form a nation that maybe has less than ten jetfigthers-Your most potent weapon is Prayer. Just as Rick warrne states in his prayer-“Hear, oh Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one’”!!!! Believe me AMerica- but for such men of God -whose introductory book to christianity “The Purpose Driven Life” changed my life permanently-as a nation you might not have found the courage to honour the son of a Kenyan AFrican with the powerful office of Commander in Chief. MAY GOD(JEHOVAH) BLESS AMERICA and its men and women of faith!!!! AMEN
Mika
!!!! My tears have not stopped as I realise that this is the common thread

Comment by Eric MIka on 1/20/09 at 3:13 pm

I totally agree with the last two comments.  The only hate their is, is not us Christians standing for the word of God, but the ones who want to twist his words and find truth in their sin.  All of a sudden we become bigots, and not loving, because we stand for truth and God over men and a seculiar world that is only temporary.
The world has turned its back on God and they wonder why we suffer.  We need to get back to God and his words and look to the life to come which is eternal, not this temporary world.  We also must give Praise to God and not Obama..He is a man and anything he accomplishes which is good, comes from God.  We have to continue to pray that he changes his stance on abortion.
And pray that he continues his stance on marrage between a man and a woman.

Comment by Lynn Wilfong on 1/20/09 at 3:27 pm

Simply a great inaugural prayer. Warren stepped back and acknowledged that Americans are united not by religion but by our commitment to freedom and justice. He prayed out of his own tradition and experience but moved the prayer toward the broadest possible inclusion. I admire Warren’s achievement here greatly. I don’t completely trust him because I do not sense that he has suffered with the suffering enough to genuinely understand and identify with them. However, this was a great prayer and a great discipline and achievement for Rick Warren. And a gift for all of those able to receive it.

Comment by Nathan on 1/20/09 at 3:34 pm

I am not sure what the Gay/Lesbian community’s issues are. Rick Warren is a professing Christian who chose to believe and follow Jesus Christ, the most effective leader in history…the God man. In doing so, he does not hit out at that community but only on their actions. None of us who professed to walk with Christ hates gays/lesbians. We just believe that their action /life style is sinful and state that according to the Word of God.
If the Gay/Lesbian community has a problem, then that problem is with God and not any of us. Remember that it is God that defines what is right and wrong and since His word says that homosexuality is an abomination to Him, then the Gays/Lesbians are encouraged to take their issue up with Him who judges us all.

Comment by Michael on 1/20/09 at 3:36 pm

What I don’t understand is Obama may have a black father but his mother is white, how does that make him the first black president? I seem to remember it takes two to tango so he has to be 50/50 unless he really is a modern day messiah. Why can’t we get past the color issue? Let him be the first off white president we never had one of these before either,using color at all allows people to pass judgement one way or the other. The off white way both races get to take the hit for what is in store in the days to come.I guess people just want to fight about something,

Comment by ROY KREIDEL on 1/20/09 at 3:38 pm

Was kind of interesting that Rick knows that people in heaven are watching and celebrating the US presidential inauguration.  There is no biblical evidence that anyone in heaven or hell is able to witness what is going on here.  Besides, why would they want to witness all the sin and pain.  But, more interesting is that he suggested that MLK,Jr. is there.  So, he now knows who is in heaven!  According to Dr. King’s seminary papers which anyone can access at the Stanford.edu website, he denied the virgin birth of Jesus, ontological deity of Jesus, the physical resurrection of Jesus and many other orthodox Christian beliefs.  He believed in a social gospel.  Sorry if the truth offends anyone out there.  Check out the King Papers at Stanford for yourself.

Comment by Robert Gion on 1/20/09 at 3:46 pm

THE DANGER THAT MOST GAY COMMENTS BRING ON FOR THEM IS DISCREDIT FOR DISTORTING THE TRUTH. 
WHEN MAKING A COMMENT ABOUT YOUR DEFENSE, MAKE TRUTHFUL STATEMENTS AND THEN THOSE WITH OPPOSING VIEWS HAVE TO RESPOND WITH THE SAME.

IN THIS CASE, ANOTHER GAY PERSON MESSED UP AGAIN BY MISTATING THE FACTS.  HENCEFORTH THE RESPONSE WAS TO DISCREDIT THE IDEA.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT GAYS DON’T HAVE ANOTHER MEANS OF COMBAT. BECAUSE RICK WARREN DOES NOT SAY THAT HE HATES GAYS, FORCES THEM TO MAKE UP THINGS THAT SAY HE DOES.

I WOULD VENTURE THAT EVERYONE HAS A GAY FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER.  I DO, AND THE ONLY THING HE EVER WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS HIS LIFE AS A GAY PERSON, NOT POLICY OR PURPOSE IN LIFE, BUT ABOUT GAYS AND THEIR LIFESTYLE.

I DON’T TALK TO MY FRIENDS ABOUT THEIR SEX OR SEXUALITY, SO I DON’T WANT TO DO THAT WITH HIM EITHER.  SO I DON’T TALK WITH HIM AT ALL.  SAD, BUT I DON’T HAVE AN AGENDA AGAINST HIM OR ANYONE UNLESS THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE SOMETHING FROM ME. IN THIS CASE MARRIAGE AS STATED IN THE BIBLE. FIND ANOTHER MEANS TO YOUR PROBLEM BUT DON’T EXPECT CHRISTIANS TO LOSE FOR YOUR GAIN.

Comment by ANDY on 1/20/09 at 3:50 pm

I thought that having Pastor Rick pray for the new president was great. he and I know Jesus didn’t condemn any body only the sin and wants every one set fee with the truth His (GODS Word)and allows who chooses to live the way they want if any one feels guilt or commendations maybe they need to get free?. Let the country that was founded on GODS Principles KEEP them. GOD Bless America

Comment by Kirk on 1/20/09 at 4:15 pm

One thing that stood out for me and it was a great prayer was..“I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life—Yeshua, Esa, Jesus, Jesus—who taught us to pray”

Esa, is the Muslim name for Jesus of the Bible, but Muslims only believe he was a prophet, a man who didn’t die on the cross, nor rose from the grave, and not the son of God. I have an answer to why Rev. Warren would mention, “Esa”. I just want to see what everyone one may be thinking..

Comment by Geo on 1/20/09 at 4:17 pm

Shut up Andy, and stop typing in caps.

Comment by Jen on 1/20/09 at 4:43 pm

Rick Warren is losing sight of his purpose in life. His prayer was all “fluff” and that’s coming from a true born-again Christian. I agree with Geo that his name references are immediately misleading. If I want to listen to a TRUE Christian leader, I’ll listen to Dr Dobson, who walks the walk and just doesnt talk the talk!

Comment by Unimpressed on 1/20/09 at 4:54 pm

How do we KNOW what Mr Warren’s purpose was for using some of the different names of YHWH?  An equally possible reason could have been that he wanted you use the local name (Yeshua) that He used while walking this earthe in the flesh???  I don’t know.  But, perhaps he felt that if he only used the name Yeshua he might (most likely would) offend every Jew hater out there (and probably a good number of Jews as well)?  Per haps he wanted to demonstrat that Jesus is NOT peculiar to CHristians only, but rather there is a certain “belief” in Him in all religions.  I don’t know, but thank God he had the guts to invoke a few of the names of God at all!

Just my own two pesos…

Comment by Steve on 1/20/09 at 7:00 pm

I have no problem with Yeshua, but to have used the name “Esa” which is the Coran gives to Jesus is completely misleading. The “Jesus” of the Coran is not the Jesus of the Bible. It is a false Jesus. He should have used “Yesua” which is the name for Jesus in the Arabic New Testament.

Comment by Frank on 1/20/09 at 7:53 pm

Matthew,

Here’s the relevant excerpt from Rick Warren’s interview at Belief.Net.  (You can read the entire interview by googling “Rick Warren Belief.Net”.)

[WARREN] The issue to me, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to redefinition of a 5,000 year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister being together and calling that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

BELIEFNET: Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?

[WARREN] Oh , I do.

If that isn’t “comparing,” I guess I just don’t know how to read.

As for your claim that Warren isn’t making a moral judgment, nearly everyone would agree that pedophilia is morally wrong—because one party to it isn’t in a consenting position due to not being mature enough to know what’s involved.  (And often, not even being asked to participate.)  There’s absolutely no basis of comparison between this and a loving, committed relationship between two adults of the same gender.  (Equivalence test: “If we let blacks vote, what’s next?  Letting dogs vote?”)

Comment by rubart on 1/20/09 at 8:28 pm

Sorry but Gays need to get over it…you guys NEVER supported Obama during the election…you supported Hillary…but yet somehow he is supposed to be loyal to you???!! Loyalty is a two way street and you guys were on the wrong road during the election…tough deal!  Rick Warren’s prayer was beautiful…

Comment by ktee on 1/20/09 at 10:15 pm

I Agree that his prayer was an exceptional one and Christ was gorified.

Comment by Tom Moats on 1/20/09 at 11:28 pm

Praise God for people who will stand up for God, even when it is not the most popular thing accepted. Rick wasm\n’t trying to put people down or condem them he was asking God’s guidance and forgiveness when we fail Him.  Thank you Bro. Rick , may God be with you and your wife and AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment by Mary on 1/20/09 at 11:49 pm

Rubart,

Bad call comparing the gay situation to what black americans have had to endure since our nation began. Gay people have never had to endure slavery nor segregation.  Being gay is a preference not a race of human.  Before you call me a gay basher or a homophobe, know that I have friends and family that have all sorts of lifestyles that are in direct conflict with God’s standards.  Heck, I use to have a daily lifestyle that was in direct conflict with God’s standard (continuous drunk binges, premarital sex, no prayer life, taking God’s name in vain, constant lying, lust of the heart).  I realized that it was tearing me up inside and keeping me from communing with my creator.  This is the truth of what Christians hold as God’s standard, marriage is to be a direct reflection of the love Jesus had for His people.  He gave His life for us, yet while we were still sinners (breaking the law of God’s standards).  The institution that marriage stands for is under major attack when God’s standards are defied by a minority of people that try to redefine it.  I am not saying that you can’t live your lifestyle.  I am not saying that you shouldn’t be respected despite our disagreement on that lifestyle.  I am not saying that I don’t love you and that you would never be invited to my house for dinner.  I am saying that you can create another institution and call it a civil union.  Don’t take “marriage” from Christians. The cultural act, term, and definition come from the Bible (God’s Word)which has said that homosexuality is as much a sin as adultry, lying, and fornicating.

Comment by Roach on 1/20/09 at 11:49 pm

where on standford s website can i find that information on martin l king.

Comment by robin on 1/21/09 at 12:13 am

Dr. King is shouting in heaven?  Rick Warren doesn’t even understand the basics of the gospel that he purports to proclaim.  He is more dangerous to true Christianity than the homosexual Robinson who opened the day.

Dr. King was a noted adulterer and a marxist who, as fare as anyone knows never repented of his sin.  For Warren to hold him as a shining example of Christianity just shows the deplorable state to which evangelicalism has fallen.

Comment by Jonathan on 1/21/09 at 1:57 am

Warren’s position as chief preacher for the Ignorati is secure.

How dare he pray in Jesus’ name?

Hey hates gays and denigrates Jews and uses the Shema to do it?

Shame!

Comment by Jew Nonymous on 1/21/09 at 2:55 am

The most interesting and surprising was Rick Warren’s praying in the name of the Muslim “Esa”, who, in their story is neither divine, nor died on the cross for us:
http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/invocations-barak-obama/296

Comment by Bosco Peters on 1/21/09 at 4:18 am

Asking whether Pastor Rick Warren was not discriminating enough in his prayer is like asking whether jesus came to die for the righteous or the unrighteous. The Bible is clear that although God Created the Righyteous and unrighteous he still permits the latter to live -“He causes the Sun to shine on both the Rigteous and Unrighteous”. the Bible is also clear that God sent his son Jesus to die for the unrighteous NOt for the righteous-if such can still be found outside o teh angelic beings who ocassionally might visit us. I beleive that Pastor Rick warren was preaching in the most part of his prayer.. drawing us (those faiths that consider Abraham as Our spiritual father) to the common God whom we worship!!!. I think had he not ended his parayer ith the actual words of jesus whne he taught his inquisitive disciples how to pray “Our father…” all those who accuse him of not being christian enough may actually have a point.

Even if he simply asked the gatherhred multitudes to simply say the Lord’s prayer it would have been prayer enough. But he was sensitive to the fact that He was speaking to Jews, Muslims, Hindus budhists , atheists and agnostics. At the Well when Jesus (considered God, Prophet and Rabbi by the christians , Muslims and jews respectively) he met the samaritan woman and the conversation he had with her teaches us that jesus was not an exclusionist!!! His message was to all humanity!!! After all did he not prophesy about the end times mathhew 24? -he was not only the son of God but also a prophet. Was he not called “Rabbi” by the Nicodemus- a member of the sanhedrin (who should have known who was fitting for that appellation)?  I think pastor Rick Warren stuck to the script given the circumstances he found himself in.

Finally the part about MLk and the great crowd of witnesses cannot be falsified by any critic. The Bible says that No eye has seen nor can any mind imagine whats is in store for us in heaven. Yet Paul also talks of a man who was temporally stuck in the third heavens. Unless we ask Dr Warren what he meant can we really pass judgement? I see men of God appearing in christian television everyday who claim to have been transported to heaven. If it happened to Isaiah (see iasiah 6) is it not possible that it still happens today. Isaaih was a prophet and in the new testament christians are exhorted to seek the gift of prohesy above all spiritual gifts. And who knows for sure that MLK did not repent before he passed on? Please do not judge!!!

For all the fault that pastor warren may have and as far as I know he is a man so he is subject to error- pelase do not forget the great labour of love that he has performed in openning the scriptures to the unreached millions through his clebrated book-the purpose driven Life. What he has done has probably been the greatest act of evangelisation that I know of in the twenty first century so far. I would be interested though in getting to hear his critics’ views on this book-which I belive was in the Ny times best seller list for quite some time. Thanks and God Bless as we continue to learn about the God of All creation.
eric

Comment by Eric Micah on 1/21/09 at 1:39 pm

Am sorry but could someone please tel me whether Jesus was actually not a prophet (mathews 24) or a Rabbi (Nicodemus a member of the jewish sanhedrin refers to him as a Rabbi in the gsopel according to John)!

Further from jesus conversation with the samaritan woman at the well we note that his purpose was to reach the unreached. He himself states that he did not come for the righteous but for the unrighteous. YWYH in hsi own wisdom allows both the righteous and unirgteous to co-exist.

Rick warren has done a marvellous job of expositing the christian faith to the unreached and in my opinion whatever else his faults (he is faterall a human being) this should be a positive plus for him. May God Bless him and add more where that generosity came from.
Erik

Comment by Erik on 1/21/09 at 2:02 pm

Rick warren’s prayer was actually a classic way of preaching through prayer. The fact that he ended his prayer through with the Lord’s Prayer which was Jesus’ precise instruction- to his inquisitive disciples- on how to pray. Even if he had simply said the Lord’s Prayer he would have been spot on. Through his prayer -sermon he actually would was able to bring to the attention of the gathered multitudes the fact that the faiths of those who consider Abraham as a spiritual father actually converge around the same God. This is already known to Muslims, Jews and Christians of different persuasions so the main target may well have been the practioners of the oriental faiths (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists etc), or those who have migrated to the same or to atheism from the three Abrahamic religions. In so doing I think Warren’s major focus was on the commonality of the three faiths –from whence th

Comment by Eric Mika on 1/21/09 at 4:13 pm

In Defense of Rick Warren

Rick warren’s prayer was actually a classic way of preaching through prayer. The fact that he ended his prayer through with the Lord’s Prayer which was Jesus’ precise instruction- to his inquisitive disciples- on how to pray. Even if he had simply said the Lord’s Prayer he would have been spot on. Through his prayer -sermon he actually would was able to bring to the attention of the gathered multitudes the fact that the faiths of those who consider Abraham as a spiritual father actually converge around the same God. This is already known to Muslims, Jews and Christians of different persuasions so the main target may well have been the practioners of the oriental faiths (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists etc), or those who have migrated to the same or to atheism from the three Abrahamic religions. In so doing I think Warren’s major focus was on the commonality of the three faiths –from whence there is the most aggressions that may result in war.

Christians refer to Jesus as the son of God and therefore as God. Scriptures though support the Islamic reference to Jesus as a prophet (the prophecies of Matthews 24 support this) or to Judaism’s reference to him as a rabbi-(recall when a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin (Nicodemus) refers to him as Rabbi in the gospel according to John).  No sincere Christian will deny the fact that the Christian faith is by revelation. So if Muslims and Jews accept the historicity of Jesus but have not as of yet received the revelation of Jesus the Christ as the son of God and therefore as God, it is for Christians to do more evangelism and mostly pray that none may be lost!!!

Those who claim that Dr Rick Warren was not discriminative enough in his prayer may at least need to acknowledge that it is by divine providence that the Sun shines on both the righteous and the unrighteous. Because he permits this and also by providence protects the righteous from the schemes of the wicked to annihilate them-it is incumbent on the righteous (especially those whose claim to righteousness is through the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross) to evangelize- through prayer and other means -the   unrighteous- mostly all members of the human race who have not yet received Christ as savior. The existence of the righteous-for whom Christ is explicit in the scriptures as not having come to save-can only be gleaned through the possibility that the latter are those who have come to accept Jesus as Christ. The righteous may of course also be the various angelic beings that occasionally pay earthlings a visit to discharge the ways of providence. But I digress. Christ taught the lesson above by example. We see that in his conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well. We also see it by his annoying, (to the Pharisees then and now), interaction with the down and outs –prostitutes, thieves, tax collectors-of his time.

Equally important for our discussion is the need to address the claim that Dr Rick Warren has no right to state that Dr ML King is shouting in heaven with a crowd of witnesses at the inauguration of a black president.  To me this is neither here nor there. After all scripture is not explicit about whether one can know what is in heaven or not. In the Old Testament God tells Moses that you cannot see the Face of God and live. If we take the phrase “the face of God” to mean the glory of God then presumably this can only be evident in God’s heavenly abode. But of we accept the foregoing as a genuine interpretation of scripture 5then we must ask ourselves what actually happenend in the exceptions that we note in the scripture viz: After Jacob is named Israel he consecrates the location and in so doing states that he has seen the face of God yet been allowed to live; the prophet Isaiah vividly describes the heavenly abode of God in Isaiah 6 when he saw the Lord in all his glory in the year that King uzziah died; In the new testament Paul is explicit that there was man who was caught up in the third heavens either in the spirit or in the physical sense. In the New Testament we are also told that “no eye has ever seen nor mind imagined what is in store for us in heaven” which initially appears contradictory to the three previous statements of human encounters with the glory of God. So unless we can actually get Dr Rick Warren to explain his statement my feeling is that we best hold our peace. After all Christians are exhorted to seek the gift of prophesy above all the available spiritual gifts. It is therefore possible that if Isaiah was able to see the glory of God in the old testament then there must be some Christians who have been granted the prophetic gift who have also like him seen the heavens glory and lived to tell. It may well be that Dr Rick warren is one such Christians –but that can only be confirmed by him. But this I do know:  Ronald Reagan was also chided for using a similar statement concerning his parents-although he did not invoke the heavenly crowd of witnesses—which is scriptural. But what now remains for me as a puzzle is this: who exactly are these heavenly crowds of witnesses? How do the critics know that Martin Luther King is not one of them-his human sins notwithstanding? I think that even if it is true that it was a major assumption on the par of Dr Rick Warren his critics must first of all answer convincingly this question: In these matters?(especially if we take the warning seriously that we should not judge others) is it better to commit a Type I or a type II Error.

Keep up the Good work pastor Rick Warren. God Bless.

Comment by Eric Mika on 1/21/09 at 4:25 pm

Rick Warren’s prayer was pretty good until he invoked the name “Esa”, the muslim name for Jesus. By doing so he acknowledged a false god, “Allah”. The muslims do not accept the Lordship of Jesus Christ as Savior. To not do so is to reject the Father, God, Jehovah.

Comment by John C. on 1/22/09 at 1:36 am

‘they will be done’ - ‘it all comes form you’ - that Rick, ‘lol’

Comment by the real Phil Brown on 1/23/09 at 5:23 am

It’s important to note that in the official text of Mr Warren’s prayer on his church website only the first part of the Jewish SHEMA is in quotation marks - “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God”. The next phrase is printed as follows - The Lord is One, and You are the compassionate and Merciful One and You are loving to everyone You have made. This virtually Jesuitical phrasing was designed to infer that the Jewish ‘Lord and God’ is also the same ‘Lord and God’ of Islam and Christianity - NOT TRUE!
My full assessment of this prayer can be viewed on
http://www.takeheed.net/CurrentConcerns_2/Warren_inaugural_prayer.htm

Comment by TAKEHEED on 1/23/09 at 5:33 am

It seems to me that what Obama says doesnt make sense he names Jesus’s name in a number of different languages as if that is Gods name but then refers the the Our Father or Lords Prayer which clearly says that Our Father who art in heaven Hallowed be THY NAME not MY NAME since it was Jesus speaking he must have been refering to His FATHERS NAME JEHOVAH or YAHWEH not his own. So if Obama wanted to reference names he should have used GODS name in different languages not Gods SON Jesus . Just a little food for thought.

Comment by njb on 1/23/09 at 9:58 pm

“a great cloud of witnesses are shouting in heaven.”

I would like to know whether his prayer can be inspired by the Holy Spirit or from Rick’s own mind.

Well, the above quote seems to suggest Rick must have to confirm whether the cloud of witnesses are the souls of the deceased who were believers.

Comment by Pek T Oon on 2/06/09 at 1:40 pm

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