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December 19, 2008 | 2:00 pm

Should Bernie Madoff be banished from the Jewish community?

Posted by Brad A. Greenberg

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Rabbi Wolpe

Danielle Berrin mentioned at Swindler’s List a discussion Jeffrey Goldberg had with L.A. Super Rabbi David Wolpe. The topic of their conversation was Bernard Madoff. And like Rabbi Elliot Dorff and others too, Wolpe takes on look at the Jewish response to Madoff. For one, Goldberg wants to know if he should be excommunicated for allegedly bilking Jewish charities of hundreds of millions of dollars:

David Wolpe: We do not practice formal excommunication.  I would not prevent him from entering a synagogue to pray.  We are in the atonement business.  However, he should be barred from any honor or recognition.  To the extent permitted by his sentence he should do something of service to the community to make small reparations for the incalculable harm he caused.  Short of formal excommunication, however, informal ‘shunning’ has a nice, solid ring to it.

JG: “Shunning,” huh?  Does that imply that you believe his crimes might be irredeemable?  At what point do you give up on a sinner?

DW: Maimonides lists sins—following the laws of the Mishna—that cannot be fully forgiven.  Common to most is an inability to make restitution (another example is one who coldly assumes “I’ll sin, be forgiven, sin, be forgiven” etc.).  Madoff cannot conceivably make restitution to the unnumbered he has hurt—from lost personal savings to people dependent on the bone marrow registry whose holdings he squandered.  Perhaps someone of purer soul might be persuaded to find redemption possible for him.  I confess I cannot.

JG: Do Jews wring their hands too much?  I didn’t notice a great deal of Christian angst over Ken Lay.

DW: I wonder if the people in Ken Lay’s church wrung their hands.  Since Judaism is not a religion, but more like a religious family, bound by strong communal ties, Jews are more likely than Christians to feel pride or shame in the actions of other Jews.  You don’t get strong bonds without a degree of identification.  That is why the foolishness in other people’s families doesn’t embarrass us.

JG: Should we be embarrassed because we’re supposed to be so smart (especially with, you know, money) and yet we got fleeced by Bernie Barnum, or should we be embarrassed because there are evildoers among us?  And what does this mean for tribal trust?

DW: We should be grateful that trust still exists.  Cunning is an unlovely stereotype; I can’t read a balance sheet to save my soul (perhaps not the best metaphor in this instance) and I am hardly alone.  It may hurt that trust, which is sad; for years the fact that the diamond business all over the world, among Jews and non-Jews, is conducted with a handshake because Jews set it up that way is a tribute to decency and probity.  One man’s venality and cruelty can’t set the standard.
Vast amounts of money call not only for trust but for a solid sense of genuine value in this world.  Rabbi Akiba says in the Talmud that the central commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18).  May I propose that these days, “Guard your soul carefully” (Deut. 4:9) deserves pride of place.

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Where do you find these so called “Rabbis”, at your Christian Church ? This so called “Rabbi” states: “Maimonides lists sins—following the laws of the Mishna—that cannot be fully forgiven.”

Forgiven by whom ? Man or G-D ? If he is refering to man, then that is a false statement since the agreived individual can forgive if that agrieved individual wants to. As for G-D, the law is clear that a person is supposed to lead an exemplary life going forward, and repent for what was done. Then, when the transgressor dies, G-D will do what G-D will do. You must have so much contempt for Judaism, not just because your are “Not a Jew by choice”, but because you cynically misrepresent the Jewish religion. I actually like shrimp, and have eaten it, but I can read for myself in Leviticus, that Shrimp is not Kosher. Now go and find a Rabbi from your Church that will say shrimp is kosher. I am sure that will be easy.
Is this whole website some kind of Messianic front ? Couldn’t the Jewish Journal have found someone knowledgable in Judaism to write this Blog ?

Comment by Martini "Kike" Leaf on 12/19/08 at 4:35 pm

You’ve seriously never heard of Rabbi Wolpe? Your comments implied that you live on another planet. This ensures it.

Comment by Brad A. Greenberg on 12/19/08 at 4:43 pm

I am Orthodox but I find Rabbi Wolpe to be thoughtful and responsible, by which I suppose I mean that he usually says things an Orthodox rabbi could easily say albeit with a different focus.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 12/21/08 at 2:24 am

Rabbi Wolpe, with all due respect Bernard Madoff should be permanently expelled from the Jewish community with no right to enter a Synagogue, no right to be buried in a Jewish cemetery, no right to participate in any Jewish ceremony, no right to even call himself a Jew.  The nice ladies from Hadassah who I have met and respect and love have been ripped off by this loser.  You are too kind by half Rabbi Wolpe.  Madoff must be shunned, excommunicated, ignored and reviled.

Comment by Dave Webster on 12/25/08 at 10:35 am

The beautiful thing about being a nation under the rule of law (talking about the Israelite nation here) is that if someone really wanted to do it they get could get a rigorous and accurate Torah ruling on the matter, so that we would not have to rely on your feelings and my feelings. Unfortunately too many people have too much of themselves invested in having freed themselves of those laws, so that all these discussions are just about feelings.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 12/25/08 at 12:52 pm

Rabbi Wolpe,

You are a poor moralist.  I no longer respect your opinion.  Are you familiar with the nice ladies at Hadassah who were ripped off by Madoff?  SO Ok there is no formal Cherem.  Let there be in informal Cherem.  Let Bernard Madoff be forever expelled from the Jewish Coummunity.  Let him be shunned.  Let he be declared to say “I am no longer a Jew.”  Nothing can forgive what he has done in the full light of reason.


Dave Webster

Comment by Dave Webster on 12/27/08 at 6:42 am

I find it interesting that this subject of excommunicating Madoff seems to have its genesis in the fact that he ripped off fellow Jews, like those “nice ladies from Hadassah”. 

When Michael Milken ripped off scores of “goyim” back in the halycon junk bond days, I heard no outcry from Jews calling for his ostracism.

And, putting swindles aside or more serious fare, what about Ariel Sharon’s involvement in the Qibya massacre?  No cries for “excommunication” then either.  Outright murder, but no outcries from Jewish leaders.  And in Judaism it is presumably true that killing one person is like killing everyone in the entire world.

Presumably true.  But not actually so, and not where “goyim” are involved.

No, Madoff’s capital offense is cheating Jews.  That’s the bottom line.  You can apparently cheat and even kill gentiles without risking any kind of ostracism from the Jewish community, but don’t you dare cheat fellow Jews.  That’s beyond the pale.  Open season on everyone else.

And that is disgusting.

Comment by Mike Hanrahan on 12/28/08 at 3:44 pm

Dave Webster,
I am trying to hint to you that you are unqualified to rule on the matter. Leave those determinations to the experts. Madoff is facing a sh!tload of criminal charges, lawsuits and heavenly judgments. Do you think your opinion is going to change anything? I love the way someone who admittedly does not practice Judaism suddenly pops up and challenges religious authority if they don’t live up to HIS personal values. Madoff probably doesn’t even care about such religious actions. I’m not defending him, just telling you to get your gold stars for your own actions and not for your your cost-free demands for the actions of others.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 12/28/08 at 11:21 pm

Mike Hanrahan,
You probably are not aware that Mike Milken did not rip off any ‘goyim’ or anyone else. After all the drama, those junk bonds actually paid off a fantastic profit, checkitout. That fact is never mentioned in connection with Milken. If you really want justice, petition George Bush to grant him a pardon.

And Ariel Sharon was guilty of nothing. An investigation into the circumstances of Qibya shows that it resulted from the usual Arab tactic of running armed operations against Israeli civilians without admitting responsibility. Is it real or is it Memorex? Is it military or is it criminals? From Israel’s point of view, who cares? Terrorists need killing.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 12/28/08 at 11:36 pm

The love of money is the root of all evil.
Greed is not good.

Comment by Dorothy on 1/05/09 at 9:35 pm

This is why I am a Democrat first, a Jew second.  I could CARE LESS if people like that or not, but I’m still not leaving the Jewish community.  On the other hand, Bernie Madoff should be cut off, just like his Gahddamn HEAD.  Thank you. grin

Comment by Judge Arby on 2/09/09 at 12:49 am

Hello to all fellow Jews and to Mr. Mike Hanrahan:

First, I think maybe Mr. Hanrahan has some “issues” with Jewish financier operations, as do I.  I have to admit that, unfortunately, a larger percentage of Jewish men are involved in financial scandals to Americans than proportionately are other ethnic groups’ males.  We have had Milken, Madoff, Abramhoff and probably others that I am not aware of just yet.  I am sorry to say this, as a Jewish woman myself.

It insults me, embarrasses me and, frankly, frightens me.  Anti-semitism arose from the “Jewish gluttony of money,” and Jews everywhere “need to respect the fact that America saved their lives” and they should not rip this country off, or anyone else for that matter!!

I disagree with Mr. Hanrahan’s contention equating Jewish financial swindling to Jewish patriotism and the right to survive.  Mr. Hanrahan, if you are not an anti-Semite, please try to differentiate between the two.

When will the Jewish men of America learn to respect America for saving them from the yoke of European death and destruction and earn their money respectably like Steven Spielberg, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell—people who make a difference and don’t hurt other people—goyim, Jews, and any other people.

Thank you.


I am still a Jew and will always be one.  I want to be proud of my race, not have to hang my head in shame because of them!!

Comment by Donna Smith on 2/23/09 at 4:19 pm

‘Donna Smith’
I don’t believe that you are a Jew, because Jews don’t think the way you do. I don’t even believe you are a woman. I do believe you are an anti-semitic male popsing as a Jew, probably the same guy pulling the same thing on another blog post.

Beyond that you know nothing about the percentage of Jewish men involved in financial scandals proportionately to other ethnic groups, nor about the causes of anti-semitism but are clumsily trying to insinuate false information about them.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 2/24/09 at 1:31 am

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