LOS ANGELES New York Israel Italy Chicago New Jersey Philly London San Fran

The God Blog

Email | Print | Text - Text +

February 2, 2009 | 5:36 pm

Sexual abuse in Brooklyn’s Hasidic community

Posted by Brad A. Greenberg

Photo

Joel Engelman at 7

NPR aired a brutal story today about two former Hasidic boys who were sexually abused as youngsters—one at the mikvah and the other at his school. Joel Engelman’s tale is particularly troubling and evokes memories of the Catholic clergy sex abuse scandal. Shame. A code of silence. Fear of God and man.

NPR reporter Barbara Bradley Hagerty explains:

Engelman parks his car across from the United Talmudical Academy, a hulking building on a desolate street. This was the yeshiva, or Jewish boys’ school, that Engelman attended. Engelman says he was 8 years old, sitting in Hebrew class one day, when he was called to the principal’s office. When he arrived, he says, Rabbi Avrohom Reichman told him to close the door.

“He motioned for me to get on his lap, and as soon as I got on the chair, he would swivel the chair from right to left, continuously,” Engelman says. “Then he would start touching me while talking to me. He would start at my shoulders and work his way down to my genitals.”

Engelman says this occurred twice a week for two months. He told no one for more than a decade. Reichman was, after all, a revered rabbi. Four years ago, he told his parents. And a year ago, when he heard that Reichman had allegedly abused several other boys, they confronted Reichman. When the school heard about it, they gave the rabbi a polygraph.

“He failed miserably,” Engelman says. “So they told me, ‘This guy is gone. This guy has to go.’ “

But a few weeks later, a religious leader from the school approached Engelman’s mother, Pearl. He posed an astonishing question: On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad was the molestation?

She was speechless. Then she says, the man continued, ” ‘We found out there was no skin-to-skin contact, that it was through clothing.’ So he’s telling me, ‘On a scale of 1 to 10, this was maybe a 2 or a 3, so what’s the big fuss?’ “

The school hired Reichman back. That was in July 2008 — one week after Joel Engelmen turned 23 and could no longer bring a criminal or civil case against the rabbi.

Reichman and school officials declined to be interviewed for this story. But Rabbi David Niederman, who heads the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, says the school did its due diligence. He says the allegation was thoroughly investigated by an independent committee of lay people and rabbis.

“I’m convinced that they made a serious investigation,” he says. “They felt that it’s not credible.”

Now Engelman has filed a long-shot civil suit against Reichman and the school, claiming they broke an oral contract.

Reichman’s attorney, Jacob Laufer, says the lawsuit is baseless and that the community is fully behind the rabbi.

“Even after these accusations were publicly made,” he says, “the parents continue to compete among themselves for the opportunity to have their children be educated by Rabbi Reichman.”

The Reichman case is not isolated. Four ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Brooklyn have been sued or arrested for abusing boys in the past three years. That’s a tiny fraction of the actual abuse, says Hella Winston, author of Unchosen: The Hidden Lives of Hasidic Rebels. She says that in researching her book, she encountered dozens of alleged victims who told her sexual abuse is an open secret in the Hasidic community. But the community is so insulated and the rabbis are so powerful that few dare to come forward.

“If I become known as an informer, then people also won’t want to have anything to do with my family,” she explains. “They won’t want to marry my children, won’t want to give me a job. This is the fear.”

But more and more accusations against rabbis have begun to circulate. Last August, politician and radio talk show host Dov Hikind devoted an hourlong program to sexual abuse. He interviewed Pearl Engelman, who spoke under an alias, about her son’s case.

The calls flooded in. Hikind, who is an Orthodox Jew himself, represents this area in the New York Assembly. He says after the show, people started showing up at his office with their stories.

“Fifty, 60, 70 people,” he says, “but you got to remember for each person who comes forward, God only knows how many people are not coming forward.”

The Jewish Journal published a cover story two years ago about sexual abuse, under the headline “Don’t Kid Yourself: There’s abusive clergy in the Jewish community, too.” It’s worth a read.

51 Comments — Leave your comment

Share this post: del.icio.us Favicondel.icio.us Digg FaviconDigg Facebook FaviconFacebook Google FaviconGoogle Reddit FaviconReddit StumbleUpon FaviconStumbleUpon Technorati FaviconTechnorati YahooMyWeb FaviconYahooMyWeb

COMMENTS

We welcome your feedback.

Privacy Policy

Your information will not be shared or sold without your consent. Get all the details.

The Awareness Center sees all survivors who speak out about the crimes committed against them as heros, especially when those survivors come from ultra-religious communities like the one Joel Engelman is from.  The experiences Joel shared on NPR is very similar to those of orthodox survivors from Chicago, Los Angeles, Chicago, Melbourne, Australia and throughout Israel.

The shame and blame survivors are forced to endure really belongs to those who commit these heinous crimes and those who assist in the cover-ups. 

I’m outraged that NY Assemblyman Dov Hikind still refuses to make hot-line reports when he suspects a child has been abused.  Considering he is a lawmaker and also an orthodox Jew would make you think he would feel he has a moral responsibility to do what ever it takes to protect one more child from becoming the next victim of a sex crime.  I’ll admit question his ability to be considered a “victim advocate” or a Jewish community leader, when he doesn’t put children’s safety first and make hot-line reports.

Vicki Polin, Founder/CEO
The Awareness Center, Inc.
P.O. Box 65273
Baltimore, MD 21209
443-857-5560
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org

Comment by Vicki Polin on 2/02/09 at 7:13 pm

I have reviewed all of the links, articles and related links and articles to this issue. Every one of them includes the caveat that there is no evidence that these incidents occur more frequently within Orthodox, ‘Ultra’ Orthodox, Hasidic or Hareidi communities than others. Every one of them concedes that the opposite may be true. All of the meaningful work countering the dangers of abuse is being done by Orthodox workers and experts.

Nevertheless, it is necessary to talk about because of the heightened moral requirements of Orthodox and Haredi life. We live under a microscope.

I have been promoting my own personal solution for this problem of whatever size it is (without success to date). I believe it is legal, simple, practical and will be effective. There is Jewish legal precedent for it in relation to other similar problems.

Here it is: Anyone proven to have committed such abuse must be banned by Rabbinical authorities to maintain any titles or trappings or Rabbinic authority. Even more so, any Jewish appearance; no long coats, no payos or beards or hareidi-style hats. No yarmulka. No participation in communal prayers (minyan). This is less a punishment than a defense of the Jewish ‘brand’.

You may think this is trivial and unenforceable. It is not. In my opinion people like those described are not only moral weaklings but function in major denial; i.e. they fool themselves that they are actually worthy Jews with perhaps a lapse. The measure I describe is aimed at removing that illusion. And for those who simply do not comply, they and those around them will be acutely aware that they are in defiance against responsible community standards and authority, no less than purveyors of non-kosher food.

I admit that this solution would not be applicable to non-Orthodox abusers but it may yield food for thought.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 2/02/09 at 7:31 pm

I have reviewed all of the links, articles and related links and articles to this issue. Every one of them includes the caveat that there is no evidence that these incidents occur more frequently within Orthodox, ‘Ultra’ Orthodox, Hasidic or Hareidi communities than others. Every one of them concedes that the opposite may be true. All of the meaningful work countering the dangers of abuse is being done by Orthodox workers and experts.

Nevertheless, it is necessary to talk about because of the heightened moral requirements of Orthodox and Haredi life. We live under a microscope.

Great points, BP.

Comment by Brad A. Greenberg on 2/02/09 at 8:11 pm

Having had considerable experience in regards the catholic sexual abuse crisis I felt I may be able to offer something of value here.

I applaud those comments made here, however just as in the catholic case there is little mention of real actions towards repairing the lives of the victims - the very reason why the catholic church is and will continue to be pursued.

Don’t let the Jewish community make this same mistake.

Comment by John Brown on 2/02/09 at 9:58 pm

The Jewish community is different in many ways from the Catholic Church which is by definition monolithic. That is you can pursue the Church but you can’t ‘pursue’ the Jewish community. Also, the nature of the crime is by definition private and embarrassing, and so are the remedies. That is why the public efforts are impersonal but there are those like Rabbi Yakov Horowitz from the heart of the chareidi world http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/ who not only work to raise awareness but devote their time to one-on-one counseling (at no charge) for victims and their families. He writes in one of his articles

I suggest that you develop a mental image of a deranged frum adult walking around your neighborhood with pruning shears viciously cutting off the index fingers of any children that he can get his hands on. Then imagine seeing hundreds of frum [Orthodox, observant] kids walking around with bloody bandages around their hands. Are you sufficiently terrified now? Well, that is a tamed down version of how I see things as far as the abuse/molestation issue is concerned. Because these evil monsters that molest our innocent children and the soulless, immoral people who cover for them are cutting out the very neshomos [souls] of the poor kids whose lives they ruin.

What I have proposed of course is personal which is why nobody is that enthusiastic about it.

Here is a recent article from a local Orthodox paper called The Abuse Issue and an earlier one from the same paper documenting the formation of a working group called the Board of Advocates for Jewish Children which includes legal and professional and rabbinic members.

In my opinion while the work of repairing lives remains private and intensive, a prerequisite is the restoration of trust in institutions to act on principle and with courage and not as ‘old boys clubs’.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 2/03/09 at 3:09 am

First of all my detailed reply to John Brown is languishing in spam and my email to you notifying you about it has bounced. Second of all, I can’t understand how Vicki Polin’s message popped up ahead of mine as mine was first in. I don’t want to get into a conflict with her but she is far more suspect than Dov Hikind ion this issue, with a pathological anti-Orthodox hatred and a program consisting primarily of gossip and slander. I don’t mind when you (Brad) bring this up as you have no personal ax to grind on the subject. At the same time, it is typical fodder for antisemites and anti-Orthodox agitators who pollute the discussion with skewed advocacy that amazingly targets religious Jews as if they condone or commit or even promote such behavior in the first place, and as if they do so to a greater extent than non-religious Jews or non-Jews for that matter.

My position is that as with other kinds of dysfunction and vice, not only is there a smaller incidence in communities defined by the Jewish religious lifestyle in direct proportion to religiosity, but that the Jewish religious response will lead the way to countering it.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 2/03/09 at 8:39 pm

Actually, Vicki’s was in first but it got flagged as spam.

Comment by Brad A. Greenberg on 2/04/09 at 1:36 am

I was just reading over the comments made here.  There are many similarities between what’s happening in the Catholic Church, the Mormon, within the Amish community and all faith based groups.  The shame and intimidation placed upon their members after sexually abuse is very much the same.  The work of Rabbi Horowitz is also impressive. 

I’ve also been following the awareness center for several years.  They also have a slew of articles that address the issues of Jewish survivors (orthodox and non-orthodox).  Topics include ” The Mikvah - Suggested Protocols to Protect Minors”, “Anti-Semitism, Sexual Abuse, and The Jewish Community”, “Finding A Rabbi: Tips for Survivors of Sexual Violence”, “Confronting Abuse In The Orthodox Community”, “Rabbis Investigating Sexual Offenses”, “Incest, Pregnancy, Abortion and Halacha (Jewish law)”.

http://theawarenesscenter.org/awarenessarticles.html

Comment by Chana Schwartz on 2/04/09 at 5:00 am

As a frum therapist working with survivors of sexual abuse by rabbis and others in the community, I have some information to share on this topic. 

While many get bogged down in the question of prevalence and comparison to tht Catholic Church, the point is moot.  While our society may indeed have less sexual abuse of children, the covering up tactics it employs make the Church’s scandal look like kid stuff. 

When halacha, the sacred code of Jewish law, is used, abused and perverted to convince victims not to get help for their pain, not to address their greivances and not to confront their abusers, for many survivors, this abuse of power on the part of the community is a more traumatic experience than the actual sexual abuse.  Holy lawys such as “lashon harah-the prohibition against gossip”, “mesirah”-the prohibition of turning a Jew into the police of an antisemitic government, “chillul Hashem”- the prohibition of desecrating G-d’s name publicly (in this case blamed on the victim for speaking up as opposed to the perpetrator and his/her enablers are used to shield the sexual abusers and to impede the victims from getting the support they need and the justice they deserve.

For those who tend to feel the prevalence of abuse is actually greater in our frum society (no definitive studies have been done, due of course to more same “halachic” considerations of “tznius” modesty and the need not to talk about the topic)there is a reason for their suspicion.  One unofficial study conducted by the police in Israel showed that in Bnei Brak (an ultra-orthodox community) there are more cases of sexual abuse by predators than in any other city.  This was not understood by any of the law enforcement experts as being attributable to an environment that is conducive to promoting sexual deviance, but rather to a community who’s “halachic” lifestyle described above is conducive to creating an environment in which molesters feel free to ply their evil trade. 

This sentiment has been repeated by New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind, whose task force on the issue has found that Orthodox community’s are the safest place for molesters to act freely to harm kids, because parents are often told by rabbis not to report the abuse.  In fact, while a few rabbis have pointed to the fact that the clear Biblical commandment to “not sit idly by” when someone is being harmed would actually mandate going to the police, for some reason, this very Jewish ideal has been completely neglected by the Jewish community and most of its leaders.

As for the obvious psychological denial of the community, it is in fact just the same as any insular community which is horrified to discover that it has problems and dangers that no amount of religious faith and observanc will imunize against.  It truly shocks the faithful, and is impossible for them to belive.  It reminds me of when Emil Fackenheim was explaining to Elie Wiesel that the Jews in America during the Holocausst did not cry out with a stronger voice because they could not believe what was happening, despite news from eye sitness accounts.  He asked, “Elie, you were there.  Did you believe it was happening?”

However, the comparison to the tragedy of the Holocaust does not end there.  Our community now has a chance to wake up and recognize the spritual Holocaust that is happening to our children and our famlies because of abuse.  We must remember that all that evil needs to be victorious is for good people to do nothing.

A.L.

Comment by Asher Lipner, Ph.D. on 2/04/09 at 7:05 am

Thankyou Asher Lipner for a well balanced response. I feel several things need to be said and highlighted from your comment, however firstly let me thank you for speaking on behalf of the the future - our children.

“the prohibition against gossip” and the Catholic churchs’ “protect the good name of the church” thinking are the essential ingredients which have and continue to enable these abuses - this is in part the thing which provides support to these abuses - it shows us why “good people to do nothing”.

Your example “Elie, you were there.  Did you believe it was happening?“ is experienced by every victim. It is not belief which underlies these problems, it is in fact dis-belief which causes the greater harm to the individual and to the group as a whole.

A victim within either the Jewish community, a Christian community, an agnostic or atheist community sees the arguments in regards beliefs as being one they can equate to arguments about the potholes in the road and the appearance at the surface whilst the bridge itself is collapsing (“no amount of religious faith and observanc will imunize against”).

“they could not believe what was happening” Their dis-belief and the dis-belief engendered in the processes of prohibition of gossip and the protection of names places these matters above the needs of victims, perpetrators, the community and the future of the community as a whole.

Comment by John Brown on 2/04/09 at 11:12 am

May each and every abused individual and their loved ones have the safety and support to tell their story and begin the healing that is their right.  As a clinical social worker, I have attended Orthodox run 12 step recovery workshops.  I am struck by their openness and integrity to address addictions and domestic violence.  From the moment of survivorship, of identifying one as having been shattered by the abuse, the power of HaShem and the Jewish spiritual resources, community and wisdom can partner with therapeutic professional treatment and support groups can foster healing.  Pedophilia is a form of sexual addiction that uses adult power and authority over vulnerable children.  Stripping the offender of outer trappings of Judaism does not do the forensic risk evaluations that are needed to see if the offender is a candidate for treatment and rehabilitation.  Removal from official Jewish duties is a first but necessary step.  Then come the family members of both the survivor and the offender.  We need to help them with the healing and treatment that they deserve.
With hope and healing to all,
Brenda L Buchbinder, LCSW

Comment by Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW on 2/07/09 at 12:49 pm

“Removal from official Jewish duties is a first but necessary step”. Thank you. If a boat is filling with water, you have to both plug the leak and bail the boat out. These are entirely different in method and purpose but in general plugging the leak comes first to avoid endlessly playing catch-up with the bailing.

In the list of the top priorities to address this problem, preventing new abuses has to come before treatment and rehabilitation. Stripping the offender of outer trappings of Judaism would be of help in treatment and rehabilitation, but that is secondary. It is to plug the leak; primarily to secure the ‘borders’ of the community. It is unfair to tell people of a community that they are alone in responsibility for the integrity of institutions that they are not personally responsible for. It is confusing to children that parents would put them into potentially harmful situations or in dangerous hands.

It is not useful to tell parents to teach their little children the paranoia not to trust anyone no matter what they look like. We want to be able to say that if someone looks like Uncle Moishy, he really is Uncle Moishy, or make sure nobody evil looks like that. These trappings are in the nature of a uniform, gang colors or what ever you want to call them. They should be protected symbols. It is doable. Let’s not overcomplicate this difficult issue.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 2/08/09 at 2:19 pm

Yenti Frost is a child molester.
I’ve been trying to have people follow this
tip and take it seriously. I know this
for a fact as I am a survivor of her abuse
and I’ve known of other survivors as well.

Yenti Frost of Monsey New York,
has a program for kids with cancer
and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that she is
actually hurting these kids.

Talk about sad.

Someone please listen and help!!

Comment by R.T. on 4/13/09 at 11:31 am

R.T.
Here is an article on Yenty Frost’s program http://jewishhomemaker.com/pesach60/chessed.html. There are not too many references to her online but most of them love her and bless her.

Why waste your time in places like this? If you have real information and are not a transparent psychopath, why not go straight to the police and start a legal criminal action where you can do some good? All you can do here is try to cast doubt on her reputation but since she has one and you don’t, it will not really accomplish much.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/13/09 at 8:10 pm

The reason I didn’t lodge a criminal complaint was cuz the Rabbonim told me not to. But I’m tired of just sitting by. Now it’s probably too late to lodge a complaint cuz they will ask why I waited so long. But thanx for your response. Yes she has a reputation. Many sex offenders do. I have nothing to gain or lose from someone else at least hearing my concern. Maybe one person will be safer and that’s enough for me.

RRT

Comment by R.R.T on 4/13/09 at 9:46 pm

4/14/09
Dear RRT,
  Thank you for writing your truth.  My guidance would be to find a therapist and a support group who can support your efforts to break the silence and register your history and concerns with the police. You can find support groups on the Awareness Center website.
Doing so will not only help you heal but give you peace of mind that you are protecting children from the harm that was your experience.  Yesher koach.

Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW

Comment by Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW on 4/14/09 at 3:40 am

RRTT
I don’t know who those Rabbonim were but the Orthodox community has determined that exposing criminal abusers and perverts does not contradict Jewish laws meant to protect the Jewish community and its members. On the contrary. If you are lying for whatever reason you are of course violating those laws as well as some American ones, but if not you should contact someone besides any random readers on the internet. Here http://www.thejewishpress.com/pageroute.do/38517 is an article by Rabbi Asher Lipner of the Jewish Board of Advocates for Children which was formed as a highly credentialed, responsible interdisciplinary activist agency to help victims. Their contact information is at http://jewishadvocates.org/

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/14/09 at 1:46 pm

R.R.T.

Rabbi Asher Lipner? Forget it. This guy is busy shilling for Hikind, who in turn is busy running interference for child molesting rabbis under the guise of being a concerned public official. I mean how else is he going to get re-elected in a shtetl full of pederasts? Awareness Center? They have their own agenda.  Hows this for a concept? If you have sufficient proof of your allegations, go to the police and let the wheels of justice do their work.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/14/09 at 3:55 pm

As a clinical social worker who has treated both survivors and perpetrators of child sexual abuse, I think it is a daunting task to go it alone after the culture and community sanctions have fostered silence for so long.  Building up therapeutic support both clinically and peer support-wise can help prevent secondary trauma.  That is the phenomenon of invalidation for speaking one’s truth and receiving harmful response once again.
Let survivors check out their own searches for the validation they so need to heal.  All organizations have agendas, but there are good people out there and life is worth living believing that despite the trauma, there is a path toward peace and blessings.

Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW

Comment by Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW on 4/14/09 at 4:08 pm

Good to see you emerging from the crypt, Shoded Yam. Passover does begin on a full moon, come to think of it.

I suggested the new Jewish Board of Advocates for Children because RRT allegedly has concern for Rabbinic authority, and because the Board has about a thousand years of collective experience. However, I don’t care if RRT goes to the police or anywhere else except a site where know-nothing Judaism-hating sociopaths such as Shoded Yam can offer their worse than useless hate speech.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/16/09 at 9:04 pm

I also suffered from Yenty Frost. What goes around comes around. Even if the Rabbonim don’t believe us, one day she will get her punishment and we will get the last laugh.

Comment by to RT on 4/16/09 at 10:05 pm

“...However, I don’t care if RRT goes to the police or anywhere else except a site where know-nothing Judaism-hating sociopaths such as Shoded Yam can offer their worse than useless hate speech.”

Everyone reads the papers, and besides this thing is out of control, towel boy. Thats the only reason Hikind’s touching this. Too many of his constituents have been naughty. Won’t do not to speak out. Not good credibilility wise. On the other hand, Dov’s a smart alte kocker, he is. Smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds the kahanist. By the way, how are things down at the mikveh? Getting alot of action or have you jumped on the band wagon and started to cruise boro park for little boys with peyes? Perhaps you were once one yourself. That would explain your obsessive need to spin and excuse the crimes of other degenerates. I see now that you’re a victim. You should try the Awareness Center, or perhaps Brenda Buchbinder. Her post mentioned that she treats both survivors and perpetrators. Well there you go Rifka. You’re covered on both ends. At the very least she’ll help you to stop fucking yourself.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/16/09 at 10:07 pm

I challenge you to point to anything by me spinning and excusing crimes of any degenerates. Let this be just the latest in my long list of unanswered challenges to you.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/16/09 at 10:11 pm

to ‘to RT’
My advice to you is the same as my advice to RRT. Notify some responsible agency of your choosing, including the police, the FBI, the District Attorney or prosecutor in charge of sex crimes, or Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW. As it stands, nobody here knows you, RRT, or Yenty Frost for that matter, and you could all be playing games. May truth and justice prevail.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/16/09 at 10:25 pm

“...I challenge you to point to anything by me spinning and excusing crimes of any degenerates. Let this be just the latest in my long list of unanswered challenges to you.

If you choose to reside in fantasy land, this is entirely your own concern. This concept of “challenging” is predicated upon the belief that somehow you produced evidence that would do so. I’m afraid not, rabbinical boy toy.  “Evidence” that emanates from that giant bag of narcisisism, solipsisms and polemics that you carry around like luggage or from some website being run by some other criminal or newspaper (The Jewish Press? Why didn’t you just quote The Onion) trying to whitewash the crimes of these “tzaddikim” and the community that covers for their behaviour is not “evidence”. It is in fact a desperate attempt to stick your finger in the dyke (or the rebbe, as the case may be) However since you asked nicely, I will oblige by pointing out your attempts to deflect attention from your communities crimes in this thread. Every single comment of yours on this thread has been an attempt to either spin or minimize the crimes (or eventual punishment) of your friends. I do however find it amusing, that your contempt for pretty much everyone else does not allow for the realization that your efforts at deflecetion are lame and quite tranparent. News Flash!! I’m not the only one who can read a post comment, nitwit.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/17/09 at 5:15 am

4/17/09
Dear writers,
  As the sun soon sets and the Sabbath after Pesach begins, I am struck by the lashon hara on the web, and the use of profanity in the same sentence with my name.  So quickly the arrogance of chametz rises again.  The humility of matzah and the story of redemption are soon put aside.  We are our words and our actions, and the teshuvah for healing requires all of us to practice tikun olam.
Shabbat shalom to all,
Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW

Comment by Brenda Buchbinder, LCSW on 4/17/09 at 2:50 pm

Quite right, Ms. Buchbinder. Your post does you credit. If you were to be dan l’chaf z’chus, you might assume that the perpetrator is a victim of an electronic form of Tourettes’ Syndrome and his profanity is an aberrant cry for help. It is an unfortunate weakness in my own observance that I personally cannot escape the assumption that it is a deliberate recurrent choice to join the Dark Side.

Shabbat Shalom as well.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/17/09 at 3:11 pm

Shoded Yam,
What you post lacks in brevity it more than makes up for in obscurity of focus and weakness in logic. The phrase “point to anything by me” would take the form; ‘on this date and this time, Ben Plonie stated XYZ’ and would take no more effort and time to post than for Obama to produce his birth certificate and release his hospital record and law school application containing his demographic information. Can’t do it, can ya? Neener, neener, neener. The challenge remains unanswered and unanswerable.

Every Orthodox journal has by now covered the abuse story, and come to the conclusions I posted; to wit, that Jewish law does not protect abusers. If the incidence of sexual abuse (or any other type of crime) were to be graphed, it would reveal a rapid rise the further one got from Orthodoxy, Judaism, and Jewishness. And in kind of Magen David effect, an inverse graph could be formed from the decreasing level of concern and activism on the topic the further one gets from Orthodoxy, Judaism and Jewishness.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/17/09 at 3:22 pm

“...The phrase “point to anything by me” would take the form; ‘on this date and this time, Ben Plonie stated XYZ’ and would take no more effort and time to post than for Obama to produce his birth certificate and release his hospital record and law school application containing his demographic information. Can’t do it, can ya? Neener, neener, neener. The challenge remains unanswered and unanswerable.”

“..Every Orthodox journal has by now covered the abuse story, and come to the conclusions I posted; to wit, that Jewish law does not protect abusers”

Please. We’re well aware that you’re a legend in your own mind. However, despite your posturing, pontifications, and a penchant for self-promotion you’re not an authority on anything. I hate to disabuse you of your Walter Mitty-like fantasies, but you’re just another useless putz with too much time on his hands. I mean it would be one thing if you actually pursued your reasearch in an unbiased, scholarly and erudite fashion, as that would suggest a genuine desire to discern the facts. Unfortunatley, your suppositions are either gleaned from partisan and predjudicial sources or they’re simply the products of your narsicism and insecurities. As such, they’ve never been worthy of discussion, and therfore nothing to “challenge”. To do so lends them credibility they never had in the first place. This brings us to the question of your motives.

Look Mother Theresa, despite your self-promotions, I don’t see “Tikkun Olam” or any other sought of altrusim coming from you. Your disingenuity is palpable, as well as the attendant contempt that you have for everyones intelligence.  Look, its not an accident that you’ve been banned from every other part of this website. As a well know racist and kahanist, you’re a recognized evil that won’t be tolerated by anyone other than Brad, who does so presumably for its entertainment value. 

“...If the incidence of sexual abuse (or any other type of crime) were to be graphed, it would reveal a rapid rise the further one got from Orthodoxy, Judaism, and Jewishness. And in kind of Magen David effect, an inverse graph could be formed from the decreasing level of concern and activism on the topic the further one gets from Orthodoxy, Judaism and Jewishness.”

Where’d you get that from, “Solipcisms are Us”? Give it a rest, you’re in denial, towel boy. One is left to wonder why.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/17/09 at 4:54 pm

“... We are our words and our actions, and the teshuvah for healing requires all of us to practice tikun olam.”

Heres the problem, Brenda. You remind me of those people you see driving around in an SUV, with multiple bumper stickers proclaiming various causes; “Save The Enviroment” and “Free Tibet”. After awhile it becomes obvious that these people don’t give a rats ass about Tibet. What they do care about is that others will think they do. Of course in your case, there is the suspicion that your simply advertising your services. Not that theres anything wrong with that. There are plenty of spammers around here. Just spare me the sanctimony.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/17/09 at 6:03 pm

S.Y.: ... That would explain your obsessive need to spin and excuse the crimes of other degenerates.

Me: I challenge you to point to anything by me spinning and excusing crimes of any degenerates… [of the form] ‘on this date and this time, Ben Plonie stated XYZ’ ...  Let this be just the latest in my long list of unanswered challenges to you.

S.Y.: Pompous random poorly adapted ill fitting prolix faux-antiquarian/formal nouveaux Norman-Mailer-esque superannuated dropout slang.

Some things are too perfect to attempt to improve upon. We can go though the same procedure with the ‘racist’ appellation, although ‘Kahanist’ would be OK as long as it is properly capitalized.

And if I told you why I was really banned from the other parts of this website, I would be banned from this one as well, but don’t assume you know why.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/18/09 at 11:16 pm

.”....: Pompous random poorly adapted ill fitting prolix faux-antiquarian/formal nouveaux Norman-Mailer-esque superannuated dropout slang.”

First off, pomposity is definitely your forte. I bow in deference to your obvious expertise in this discipline. Secondly, your grasp on reality is tenuous. I get it. You insist on fantasizing about having slayed the dragon. Again, this is entirely your concern, but you’ll have to exuse me if I choose not to jump down the rabbit hole with you.

“...And if I told you why I was really banned from the other parts of this website, I would be banned from this one as well, but don’t assume you know why.”

Who cares? In any event, I’m sure the deliberations were breif as the “Piece of Shit” label stamped on your forehead could be divined from a mile away.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 7:09 am

S.Y.: ... That would explain your obsessive need to spin and excuse the crimes of other degenerates.

Me: I challenge you to point to anything by me spinning and excusing crimes of any degenerates… [of the form] ‘on this date and this time, Ben Plonie stated XYZ’ ...  Let this be just the latest in my long list of unanswered challenges to you.

S.Y.: (Further attempts to change the subject.)

You evidently do care why I was banned, since you brought it up wrapped up in another juvenile insult. Only one other person besides me knows why, and neither Brad nor you are that person. Not to belabor the obvious, but with all of the vast resources of the Jewish Journal and the World Wide Web, why is it you have nothing to do except follow me around competing for my attention?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/19/09 at 7:49 am

You’ll pardon me. Not seeing the multitudes clamoring to engage you in conversation, I don’t think its much of a competition. In any case, your attentions are obviously ego-driven and a product of your insecurities and the humiliation that comes with having your ass handed to you.  Nice try, though.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 8:14 am

Your statement “Who cares? In any event, I’m sure the deliberations were breif as the “Piece of Shit” label stamped on your forehead could be divined from a
mile away.” defines very clearly the attitude shown many in both the Jewish and the catholic community towards those who have been sexually abused by their clergy.

Whilst your bullying and the extent of it are a simple indicator to the depth of the degree of your denial.

The defense of and the denial of the indefensible makes you the moral loser and simply displays the depth of your ignorance.

JohnB

Comment by JohnB on 4/19/09 at 8:21 am

John,

You know I never thought of it like that. Please forgive me. I’ve only recently become aware of ben’s molestation at the hand of an overly pious shochet. I’ll try to be more understanding.

SY

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 8:27 am

Apalling - simply apalling

JohnB

Comment by JohnB on 4/19/09 at 8:46 am

Shoded,

Hopefully that understanding can permit the consideration of the concept behind the September 1 initiative found at september12009.com you will find it has many merits and does not discriminate on the grounds of religion, politics etc. Its focus is on the root of this conversation and how to achieve a change of culture in that regard. It is something the Jewish community may wish to consider supporting.

JohnB

Comment by JohnB on 4/19/09 at 8:54 am

“..Apalling - simply apalling”

Whats apalling? Rabbi’s raping little boys? The ortohdox community’s amorality? They’re complicity in these crimes by actively covering for these degenerates? Or your lack of reading comprehension? Look, people are waiting. Pick an outrage and go with it.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 9:02 am

Ben,

If you are able you need to remember that what you are speaking about terrifies and challenges to the core those who read stories like yours. Understand that those fears are unfounded at the end of it all however they are real for many - often they have not considered from your perspective before. You have a story which needs to be told - unfortunately there are few ways to relay information about human suffering and horror without describing human suffering and horror.

You have achieved much to survive this far in your life as you have had to effectively survive the denials of almost your entire community - much of simply because to be able to see the horror or your reality they must have surmounted the horror of their own. Few people achieve that in their life. My congratulations on your survival and your growing ability to be able to express some of your experiences.

Comment by JohnB on 4/19/09 at 9:11 am

Thanks, John. Really. However I am neither a molestee nor a molestor, just a person who likes to discuss truth, ideas and solutions.

Shoded Yam is a conflicted soul who is psychologically stuck at the level of seeking validation for the smell of his electronic diapers. For undoubtedly complicated reasons he hates Judaism and me as a focal point for it, and spends his leisure following me around and insulting me. While you are dead-on about his bullying, low moral state and ignorance, you have unfortunately given him a temporary giggle at leading you to believe that I am a victim, but no matter.

The issues of child molestation and its solutions take something of a different form for Jews who have no centralized Church, and rather than repeat myself I would direct you to my first posts on this thread before it was once again polluted and corrupted by Shoded Yam. In brief I advocate the literal ‘defrocking’ of clergymen and others of religious garb so as to deprive them of any psychological advantage in gaining the trust of vulnerable victims who would have greater opportunities to get their guard up. Alas this could only be applied to the relatively tiny incidence among the most religious Jewish communities and not for those whose ideology is to appear like everyone else and blend into the crowd.

Most of all we must provide victims with the confidence that the both the greater community and God Himself are on their side. I wish you success in your global effort.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/19/09 at 12:02 pm

You need to stop conflating your interests with that of the rest of Judaism. Shoded Yam doesn’t hate Jews or Judaism. Shoded Yam is an Isareli citizen and an IDF veteran. Shoded’s wife is a Sabra from one of the more well respected families in Israel. If Shoded Yam hates Jews than Shoded Yam is a glutton for punishment. Shoded Yam doesn’t like orthodox jews. Shoded Yam beleives that orthodox jews are a flawed, repulsive and obsolete paradigm that should be discarded. Therefore, the proper answer would have to be Shoded Yam believes that Professor Anonymous is flawed, repulsive and obsolete and should be discarded.  Shoded Yam (among others) knows that your a self-absorbed,weakling and frustrated pseudo-intellect who’s primary interest in life is in seeking validation for that weakness while attempting to style himself an unappreciated scholar, denied the long over due accolades by a hostile, left-wing conspiracy. 

“..In brief I advocate the literal ‘defrocking’ of clergymen and others of religious garb so as to deprive them of any psychological advantage in gaining the trust of vulnerable victims who would have greater opportunities to get their guard up. Alas this could only be applied to the relatively tiny incidence among the most religious Jewish communities and not for those whose ideology is to appear like everyone else and blend into the crowd.”

Its interesting that your first response is about ameliorating the punishment for the perpertrators (they say that many victims of child abuse become perpretrators themselves. Couldn’t hurt to plan ahead. Good thinking)rather than succoring justice for the victims. The first response of a normal un-molested individual in the United Staes of America would be; “Have you gone to the police?” You see, this question is predicated upon the belief that our police forces are more than capable of discerning whether or not a crime has been committed and our justice system is well equppied to mete out punishment. Oh, I don’t know. Instead of not wearing tsi-tsim, 25 years to life in State Prison, getting boned up the ass thrice daily for being a fucking wise guy. Instead of no kippah, getting your face shoved in a urinal once a week. News Flash!! Most people could’nt care less about your phylacteries, kippot, etc. They’re perfectly okay with the concept of you laying teffilin during the morning cavity search.

And give it a rest. Like everyone else here, john knows that your in denial, the lame sophistry notwithstanding.
He’s offering you help. Instead of patronizing him, you should be embacing him.(or maybe not)


It would appear that your more interested in protecting the intrests of

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 1:12 pm

Maybe it is you who need to stop conflating Judaism with either Israeli citizenship, IDF participation, or thirdhand family connections. It’s worth borsht in view of your irrational antagonism to Orthodox (read; essential) Judaism, and especially in view of your previously admitted disloyalty to fulfillment of your duty to Israeli civilians depending upon you, admitted assult upon a civilan, abandonment of Israel and termination of a viable Israeli lineage, and disregard for the citizenship of your own child in the Jewish nation. There is a worldwide tsunami of post-Zionist Jew-hatred proving to every dullard but you that nobody cares about your weakly bleated illogical justifications for your unsupported half-hearted and backward views on Israel. None of the many hardcore antisemites I contend with on this blog have anything on your hate speech and bigotry.

Second, it is getting tedious to point out that you can’t make a point without autistically ignoring what other people and especially me have actually written. Asher Lipner, Ben Plonie (several times), and Brenda Buchbinder ALL advocated going to the police for actual criminal behavior before you so heroically did. My suggestion adressed the issue that Ms. Buchbinder brought up of “Removal from official Jewish duties is a first but necessary step”, of prevention, and of positive civilian community action. Read my post, it’s really good and it’s not going anywhere, unlike yours which were gone before they ended.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/19/09 at 2:37 pm

Judaism, and especially in view of your previously admitted
disloyalty to fulfillment of your duty to Israeli civilians depending upon
you, admitted assult upon a civilan, abandonment of Israel and termination
of a viable Israeli lineage,”


I chose to serve and not talk. You chose to talk. I served honorably and faithfully as my comrades and Pinhas Hoger will testify to. You sat around the shtiebel with your thumb up your ass. You’re a parasite and a coward.

I gave you the oppurtunity to seek satifaction. I was willing to set a time and a place in Fresh Meadows, you stayed home. I even made it easy and safe for you and promised I would show up at public spot no more than 2 or 3 blocks from your hovel, and still you refused. I would imagine after being eviscerated so often you’d at least like to take a shot at me. But as suspected, you only have a set of balls in virtual reality, not in actual reality. The internet was certainly designed for cunts like you. On the other hand, you understood that unlike the internet, the price for writing checks your body can’t cash is a beating.

Your denial of my Isareliness is irrelevant, as it emanates from a ghetto. The only validation of my Judaism and Israeliness comes from my family and my comrades. Like many of them I was an oleh chadash, and like many of them I earned my citizenship with my swaet and blood.  When you can say the same, when you can produce a teudat zahout and pinhas hoger describeing your service in full than you can talk to me about serving your country and being an Israeli. Until that time, go back to the mikveh and clean up, like a good towel boy should.  And for the record, my child is a full Israeli citizen, who will and already does enjoy the full benefits of his birthright and legacy.  Now, you chickenshit cunt. You can say to me whatever you like, have the last word, whatever. Don’t you ever talk or refer to my child again. We understand each other? Unless you want to take care of this like man.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 6:10 pm

“Removal from official Jewish duties is a first but necessary step”, of prevention,”

Wrong again, dickless. The first and only step toward prevention is prison, maximum security. Failing that, a bullet in the head. Tell me something, you get paid by the hour as an apologist for rabbinical pederasts or is it a flat rate?

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 6:24 pm

“..Asher Lipner, Ben Plonie (several times), and Brenda Buchbinder”

The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. The only thing these three sick, twisted, fucks have in common is their need to self-promote on the backs of molested children. At least that shill Lipner and that spam artist gave their true names, ostensibly to drum up notoriety or business. The Anonymous Colostomy Bag just likes to masturbate over his meanderings. Some kid’s horror becomes fodder for his drivel. Disgusting.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 4/19/09 at 7:49 pm

What exactly is the meaning of ‘serving’ that involves betraying the citizens of your nation, an unprovoked criminal assault of a minor civilian resulting in permanent injuries and a separation from that nation? There might have been a satisfactionfor me in trashing your brutish self, but for a naked ape with his screws loose I content myself with besting you in the intellectual and moral arenas.

As for your Pinhas Hoger, well, we all make mistakes but I will give you one and only one brownie point for it. As for your child, I have already wished him the best but you have publically approved his marriage to a non-Jew; that did not come from me. You are already a dead stump on the Jewish family tree. And back on topic, the issue of “Removal from official Jewish duties is a first but necessary step” likewise did not come from me but Ms. Buchbinder.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 4/19/09 at 8:11 pm

It is highly important that we see to it that our children are aware of sex and its positives and its negatives. Sex education also includes making a child aware of molesters and pedophiles etc. A little kid will never understand that it is being exploited and used. It will definitely know that something is wrong, but won’t understand how to react. Molestation and sexual exploitation on children can leave permanent scars in the mind of the child. Sexual abuse could lead to hatred towards men in general and isolation of oneself from society.

Comment by vibrating bullets on 5/20/09 at 2:11 am

Above is a spam post, links to a sex shop

Comment by Ben Plonie on 5/20/09 at 3:07 am

If I’m not mistaken the hasidic community consists of a number of sects that don’t even intermingle (for the most part) and each have their own religious court to handle matters. So they judge before the state court. I think it would be better if the molesters were thrown in jail.They shouldn’t be allowed to teach and to interact with younger boys.

Comment by dildo on 10/06/09 at 5:15 am

Why do people automatically assume that a sex offender is a child molester?

Comment by escorts on 12/15/09 at 9:15 pm

Post a Comment

Name:  
Email:  
URL:  

Type the word you see below:

Comment:

About this Blog

Blog Home
About the Blogger(s)
Contact

RSS


Blog Archive

Newspaper

Serving a community of 600,000, The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angles is the largest Jewish weekly outside New York City. Our award-winning paper reaches over 150,000 educated, involved and affluent readers each week. Subscribe here.

© Copyright 2010 The Jewish Journal and JewishJournal.com
All rights reserved. JewishJournal.com is hosted by Nexcess.net. Homepage design by Koret Communications.
Widgets by Mijits. Site construction by Hop Studios.

counter fake hit page