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February 9, 2010 7:58 am PST

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	NIF fracas: Defending Israel or destorying democracy? ‘Savior’ of Tel Aviv, Goel Ratzon, accused of enslaving women Clinton: Iran, N. Korea pose gravest threats Report: Yishai moves to legalize Jewish ownership of East Jerusalem building Abbas reportedly agrees to indirect peace talks Costa Rica elects Jewish VP Israel’s high court frees pro-Palestinian activists on bail German Jewry’s top leader to step down Reassign Jerusalem reporter, N.Y. Times’ public editor says Britain logs record number of anti-Semitic incidents

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One problem with so many overlapping topic on a breaking story is that the issues are addressed in different threads and continuity is lost.

I addressed the Buchanan issue here http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/handicapping_the_mccain_and_co_ticket_20080828/
“Fortunately, the Buchanan kerfuffle is taken out of context. Palin offered this statement in response to reportage on that topic: “As mayor of Wasilla, I am proud to welcome all presidential candidates to our city. This is true regardless of their party, or the latest odds of their winning. When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I’ll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect. Though no reporter interviewed me for the Associated Press article on the recent visit by a presidential candidate, the article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla. As mayor, I will welcome all the candidates in Wasilla.”

Whew! I as a Jew am satisfied with that statement, and I am encouraged by the fact that Buchanan is terribly critical of McCain’s views and policies. The enemy of my enemy and so on.”

and I addressed the Israel Firster issue here http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/mccains_pregnant_teen_20080901/
“I think the one you should be scared of is Biden…”

“... back to the hyprocrisy question for a minute, Biden’s famous support for Israel consists of rhetorical support for the US/Israel relationship, but he supports every policy that undermines Israel’s national security. He supports Israel donating the Golan Heights to Syria, meeting and negotiating with Syria, and he brushes Syria’s alliance with Iran and support of terrorism under the rug. Biden opposes every diplomatic or military move against Iran and understands Iran’s ‘emotional needs’ in developing nuclear capability. from Caroline Glick “In the weeks after the September 11 attacks, Biden was already thinking about appeasing Iran. In a New Republic profile in October 2001, Biden was quoted raising the following suggestion to his Senate staffers: “Seems to me this would be a good time to send, no strings attached, a check for $200 million to Iran.” [!!!!!]

Obama of course is ten times farther along these policies than Biden. But if you don’t call Biden a plain fool, his policies don’t pass the smell test. I would rather have Palen with no record on Iran than someone with a naive or corrupt one.”

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/02/08 at 9:14 am

Hmmm…. I guess you prefer Barack Hussein Obama’s Jewish hater and associates like pastor J.Wright. Jesse Jackson and the infamous Nation of Islam leader Farakhan. See below article in the Alaska news before judging her.
Alaska - Chabad Rabbi: Sarah Palin a Great Friend To The Jewish Community
VIN News ^ | Aug. 31, 2008

Alaska- In light of recent media reports attempting to connect Republican VP nominee Gov. Sarah Palin with controversial historian and Nazi sympathizer Pat Buchanan, VIN News has learned that the Alaska governor has demonstrated strong support for Alaska’s Jewish community. In particular, Gov. Palin signed a resolution in June of 2008 recognizing Israel’s 60th anniversary and the unique relationship between Alaska and the Jewish State, especially the fact that Alaska Airlines played a critical role in the rescue of 40,000 Yemenite Jews in 1948 and 1949.

Chabad of Anchorage’s Rabbi Yosef Greenberg had this to tell VIN News:

“Gov. Palin signed this resolution in the presence of Alaska’s Jewish community leaders. This bill was orchestrated by members of the Alaska Legislation and heavily supported by Speaker of the House, Representative John Harris…

Gov. Palin has established a great relationship with the Jewish community over the years and has attended several of our Jewish cultural gala events. Gov. Palin also had plans to visit Israel with members of the Jewish community, however, for technical reason, the visit has not occurred yet.

I was personally impressed by Gov. Palin’s remarks of hope and faith when she gave birth to a child with special needs. We all feel that the Governor is a remarkable, energetic, and good person.

Having said that I like to reiterate that As a Lubavitcher rabbi, I would like to note that we do not endorse any political candidate.
I think she paid he Jewish due , don’t you think?

Comment by sue on 9/02/08 at 1:14 pm

Don’t you think it is about time that you begin by asking the more important question, “Is she good for America?” The answer is an emphatic, “No!” Since AIPAC and its grassroots network have both houses of Congress under their firm control (which is NOT good for America), it really doesn’t matter what her position is on Israel. As it is she apparently is one of those who are waiting for the return of Jesus and the rapture. In other words, a nutcase who doesn’t really like Jews.

Comment by Jeff B on 9/02/08 at 4:12 pm

The day that I let Lubavitch decide my politics is the day you can commit me to a home.

Comment by The Web Guy on 9/02/08 at 6:54 pm

Jeff B
Your implication is offensive. I can’t think of one thing good for the Jews that is bad for America, unless your vision of America is that of Buchanan or Machiavelli. The job AIPAC does is arguably good or bad, but it has nothing under its ‘control’. Stupid.

Nevertheless, all of the ink and verbiage and bandwidth in America on this topic are asking your question. When you come to The Jewish Journal on a topic called ‘...good for the Jews?”, it is first of all a witty take on an wise old cliche and second of all a legitimate concern for those who care about those things. In a democracy, everyone is free to vote their interests. Let’s go, Jeff, what are YOU giving up for America? The Jews? I thought so.

As far as the Rapture goes, that is one of the weakest and dumbest arguments around. Hagee… Falwell… Robertson… they don’t really love us…  big deal. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Jews don’t really expect the majority non-Jewish world to have an outlook congruent to their own. In other words, we don’t give a flying. Now take my Saviour… please! Hahaha. But seriously, we are happy enough to be let alone to live our own way in peace, and may the best Truth win.

Web Guy
You could do worse than letting Lubavitch decide your politics, although I don’t really see that happening here. A simple non-objection does not seem too coercive, but it is useful input. Who in the order of Lubavitch do you think is worthy of deciding anyone’s politics anyway?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/02/08 at 8:02 pm

Why is it that this seemingly intelligent world is following the fundamentalists of all strips into destruction?  Be it lubavitchers, the taliban, pentacostals, radical hindus, or any other fundamentalist wing one can think of, we seem to be letting these nutcases into positions of power.

Didn’t we learn anything from the pogroms, the holocaust, the killing fields, rwanda or darfur?

Rational people - wake up!  The next hitler will ride into town carrying a bible, cross, scroll, or other religious article and seek to extinguish the infidel-of-the-day… are we that stupid as to follow these nutcases?

Comment by C'mon please on 9/02/08 at 10:44 pm

totally agree with c’mon please. save your breath regarding the ill-advised people who would support someone like Pallin. they’re the same people who supported Bush and look what we got. trouble is, we’re in much worse shape than we were when he took over so if the Republicans are elected it means that too many people didn’t learn their lesson and this time we don’t have nearly as far to fall.

Comment by andrea R on 9/02/08 at 11:20 pm

Please research Palin Jewish views. 
We need the Jewish community to see the light and support fully Obama. 

Her pastor in Alaska welcomes Jews for Jesus that is led by David Brickner.  She sat in the pews while he preach his venom towards Israelites. I know that the majority of the Jewish American community is against that organization.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/03/08 at 4:46 am

...research Palin Jewish views…
Breaking News!

Sarah Palin tells AIPAC she’s pro-Israel !!!
http://www.jewishjournal.com/articles/item/sarah_palin_tells_aipac_shes_pro_israel_

McCain team: Palin rejects views of church’s Jews for Jesus speaker !!!
http://www.jewishjournal.com/elections/article/mccain_team_palin_rejects_views_of_churchs_jews_for_jesus_speaker_20080903/

“Church pastor Larry Kroon confirmed that Palin ... would have had no way of knowing that Brickner was slated to speak.

“Governor Palin does not share the views he expressed, and she and her family would not have been sitting in the pews of this church for the last seven years if his remarks were even remotely typical,” Goldfarb [McCain campaign spokesman] wrote in an e-mail.

Do you really need me to provide research to Iran appeasin’, al Qaeda excusin’, terrorist regime meetin’, Putin explainin’, Weather Underground Ayres buddy Obama? who has less Jewish support than any Democrat ever? HE’s better than a Pentacostal believer? OK.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/03/08 at 12:23 pm

To Ben Plonie,

First of all we are all Americans.
If I know of a better way then you to deal with Iran
that does not make me Iran appeasing. There is not one American I know who want Iran to have nuclear bombs.
Talking tough does not solve anything. It shows cowboy mentality.

Second of all The articles you stated came out on September 3rd. Are you blind to see political “SPIN” when it occurs?  As I damn Obama for not coming up with his Pastor issue until the press broke it, I also damn Palin for the same.  I don’t differentiate.- Equality.

It seems to me that you use Pentecostal believer as someone who will save us. Take it from someone who grew up in Christian home and schools, Christianity should not be used as a political tool!! See G. W. Bush.

Last, stop upping yourself and Republicans as being more American then Obama or Democrats.  That is an old tactic used by many who think they know better for the country.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/04/08 at 1:45 am

Since she’s running for an American office I would hope the most important question would be is she good for American interests.

If she *was* “good for the Jews* (whatever such a generalized question could mmean anyway) would it matter to many/most Jews if she was most definitely *not* good for Americans?

Would a candidate that would most probably hurt American interests be supported if it could be argued that they helped Israeli ones (or is beneficial to Israel not the same thing as “good for the Jews”?)

Comment by LanceThruster on 9/04/08 at 7:08 am

And therein lies the problem.  Jews of all levels of faith have bought into the fundamentalist “love of Israel” argument without realizing that the fundamentalist purpose has a singular goal - to allow them to ascend to their version of heaven on our backs.

Some fundamentalist apologists say “what difference does it make, they support Israel.”  That is a ghastly argument.  The support of Israel from these communities is not pure of heart - and last I checked, all religious texts (of all denominations) look beyond the effect to the actual motivation.

Yes, these folks are “pro-Israel” with regard to tanks and bombs, but they are no better than the fundamentalist Muslims who use Israel for their own ascent into their version of heaven.

Sure, it may feel good to be “used” - but we’re letting these folks use us like a cheap hooker.

Comment by C'mon on 9/04/08 at 7:19 am

Maybe I speak out of turn. It is true that those associated with the likes of Farrakhan or Wright are idots who spew hate. At the same time, if it’s possible to put it into context it should be understood that this out-dated line of black nationalist discourse is as harmless as ca be in that it is not ideological or theological. The idea that for a few years in pre/post riot era urban youths looking for factual understanding of their world were given misinformation and that to some degree it was colluded with the black rage phenomena until it was widely understood to be fruitless and false is really a joke. Blacks never ideologicaly internalized this garbage, most now have never head it, and besides temporary inclusion in rap music, it represents an annoying anti-semitism that I wouldn’t even extend to Israel. There was no alliance with international Islam or Arab Muslims within the US by common blacks. It’s a moot point. That Barak came across some of this nonsense during his personal afro-nationalistic journey is inevitable. It is also overwhelmed by his rise to success in his party from a major metropolitan city.
That seems to pale in comparison to temporary allies whose teachings teach the destruction of the jewish faith and belief, even if in a kinder way. That Barak’s former minister made remarks at his church cannot compare to the fact that the Republican VP candidate actually sat and applauded during a sermon two weeks ago in her church that argued that Israel deserved terrorism, as it was an affliction of God for non-belief. This is an underlying radicalism that gives theological, ideological, and historical extension to the blowing up of abortion clinics, secession from the US, and blowing up federal buildings. If we are against radical islamic fundamentalism, why would we vote for radical christian fundamentalsim, when their aim is the same, yet through different means.
My thoughts.

Comment by Tony Jones on 9/04/08 at 3:37 pm

ThePoliticalTruth, 7:39
We are all Americans? Your English is ok but not really American. On this blog let’s pretend you are. Bearing in mind that America has many jealous competitors whose advice for America cannot be trusted.

Why should I take your word for it that you know a better way to deal with Iran? And are you Obama or his geopolitical strategist? Who is talking about you anyway? I think that people like you have a naive view of middle easterners. You think that dealing with them on their preferred terms will get you your goal. They are not dumb but they are culturally primitive. They laugh at you and have contempt for you for buying into their crappola. They don’t like ‘cowboy mentality’ but they do respect it, since that is their own mentality.

‘Second of all’ the articles that came out were responses to desperate Democartic and liberal attcks, not political spin. But even if you wanted to say so, I am convinced that Palin is positively inclined and politically objective (same thing) to Israel and the Jewish people, and that Obama’s assurances ARE political spin. As I said, for a Christian to believe in evangelism is not offensive, even if we think they are wrong and wasting their time. That cannot be compared to Farrakhan and Wright who are hateful and inciting others to hate and bigotry and actually dangerous.

As a Jew, I accept that this country is mostly Christian. Just because the State doesn’t mandate a religion, can only atheists run for office?

‘Last’, let’s all say what we think and make our case, instead of telling others not to ‘upping’ themselves.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/04/08 at 8:29 pm

To C’mon
I have seen your argument here several times, and I don’t know why anyone thinks it is a good one. Do you think that thre Muslims care that the Nazis and Communists both support them against the Jews? Do you think they think it is for the sake of Allah? They don’t care and we don’t care. If God has arranged for fundamentalist Christians to approach the truth and support our cause for their own reasons. that does not mean they are using us. And even if it did, it makes no difference asd long as they cause us no harm.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/04/08 at 8:39 pm

Tony Jones
Don’t worry about speaking out of turn. Being wrong need not be embarrassing, as long as you are sincere and mean no harm.

I don’t know where you get your information, but that black nationalist line of discourse is absolutely ideological and theological, it is no joke, there are many and strong ties between international Islam and these movements. The adoption of Arabic names and styles and religion in streets and prisons is seen as a blow against the slave history when black people were owned by Christian slaveholders. At the same time, they are reinforcing the subordinate role of Africans to Arabs who were the original slave traders in Africa. it is no coincidence that the Nation of Islam teaches that it was the Jews who were involved with the slave trade, even though that has been debunked multiple times.

The sermon in the Church was not given by a native Christian but by a ‘Jew for Jesus’, who have severe hang-ups and conflicts on the subject of Jews, and cover their feelings of insecurity and inadequacy by presenting themselves as better than Jews because they are Christian, and better than Christians because they are Jews. Highly annoying to all concerned.

The quality and quantity of ‘radical christian fundamentalsim’ is tiny and laughable considered against radical Islamic fundamentalism, someone like Palin has shown herself as thoroughly professional and able to separate her religious participation from her poliical one. I don’t see them as having th same goals at all.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/04/08 at 8:53 pm

Ben:

I disagree wholeheartedly.  We teach our kids to do things for the “right reasons.”  That is basic ethics.  Not maintaining those ethical standards makes us into corroborators in their destructive mission.  No different than those who tolerated the Nazis because it was good for them economically or politically.

Without ethics, all of the prayer in the world won’t save Israel or anyone else.  Fences, walls and guns wont do it alone.  If there is a god (and I doubt that there is), it will judge us on our deeds and our heart.  Even without a god, our kids will judge us on our deeds and our heart.  Its time to say “no” to those who want to climb over us to reach salvation, be they christian, muslim or jewish.

Comment by C'mon on 9/04/08 at 9:01 pm

Went straight to the Nazis pretty quick there - Bang, zoom, to he moon, Alice! It is not possible to say that we should in an unethical manner. But your bringing in the Nazis undoes your argument. The revelation of the Holocaust is not that the germans were evil people, On the contrary, it was that the Germans were good people. Germany was the most highly developed, educated, cultured and ethical nation in the world (other than the Jewish nation but I am speaking of a nation conventionally grounded in their material environment).

The revelation is that none of those things defined the humanity of the Gernams or prevented Germany from losing its humanity. Secualar abstract ethics is basically meaningless. But to take you on your own terms, the restoration of the Jewish nation in their homeland is the most ethical undertaking in history. Never mind fundanmentalism and salvation for now. No geopolitics is entirely pure of heart, and the Jews have had to overcome quite the reverse along the course of restoring Israel. It is also patronizing of you to say that it is not possible for a believer to be ethical (in another time it would be comical) or a non-believer to be unethical. I think you will find the preoponderance of evidence on the reverse concept.

If you think about it, it is you who want to climb over others to reach your own idea of ethical pure of heart and deeds salvation.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/04/08 at 9:43 pm

The Nazis are relevant only by example - corroboration with folks with an ethic that allows for use of one’s own good graces - be they political or religious is dangerous at best, critically fatal at worst.  It is just as true for any other nearby cadre who goes along with something horrendous for their own benefit - even at the cost of others’ suffering.

Furthermore, secular ethics are not meaningless - religion is neither the sole source nor best source of ethics (as all of the religiously based murders over the millennia has more than proven.

The statement that “the restoration of the Jewish nation in their homeland is the most ethical undertaking in history” is ridiculous.  By who’s standards?  And does it matter how that homeland conducts itself?  Apparently not - as long as its there, nothing matters.  This approach will be our undoing.

Finally, I did not say that believers had no ethics… and that secularists have a monopoly on them.  However, when we check our brains and consciouses at the door and follow blindly some dogma or dogmatic leader - then we have lost our ethical compass. 

If there is a god, it gave us our brains for a reason - although some seem to believe that the reason for our brains is similar to the reason that the apple existed in the garden of eden -  we should resist the temptation of using them or be forever damned.

Comment by C'mon on 9/04/08 at 9:57 pm

Ben,
Yeah, this is a bit what I was concerned about. Having lived through the late 80’s and 90’s and understanding the dynamics of that time, I would never want to minimize the damage caused by some of the cultural happenings of the time. I get it. I still don’t think the black adoption of muslim names, albeit a slap in the face in many respects, or the rhetorical displays on the Phil Donahue Show amount to much of an extended ideological adoption of anti-semitism. I still think that at that time you could have sold any enemy to the neo-nationalist pre/post riot black (just ask the koreans). While it’s still stupid hatred, it strikes me as redeemable. There was no historical association taken outside the of the Nation of Islam, no theological stale-mates, and no offensive movement outside of the fringes. I am still convinced that the normal everyday black person TODAY is absolutely oblivious as to why there would be any dissonance between blacks and jews.

In any event, I can understand that the value of my point is undermined by the fact that the minutia of black nationalism (to black people and the country at large) is overcome by the risk that a black president could be harboring those views.

ithout making my identity the issue (while acknowledging that that statement might make it an issue), I will concede that my best argument, which is that, at best, the black nationalist fad was/is a marginal part of the larger black society and unable to have any real structural or policy effect, is undermined by the potential risk that the next president could harbor such views. I just don’t want to believe it.

I still believe that there is a special relationship between blacks and jews which is still born out continuoulsy interpersonally that has been affected by J Edgar Hoover and other policies designed to undermine such a coalition.

Whoever the next president is notwithstanding, it’s probably the only relationship capable of finding a way to bridge the gap between security, tolerance, and national unity (not just in the US). I just have little faith in the current alliance which suggests that those who believe in the survival of Israel for reasons that have little to do with the people of Israel is dangerous.

I will, however, admit that having to choose between two possible disengenuous possibilities is a tough place to be. Maybe it’s “above my pay grade”, but I’d love to see the black-jewish issue resolved because it defies history and seems unnecessary and outdated.

In any event, no way, I trust an administration with a radical christian fundamentalist. McVeigh just hit a smaller building, the Atlanta bomb just didn’t hit a crowd big enough. But writing this has been good for me, as the more I write, I can see why the sudden rise of Barak given his affiliations can be worrisome to jews.

I guess to make my point, please understand, Sarah Palin is my Barak Obama. Thanks for answering.

Comment by Tony Jones on 9/04/08 at 11:23 pm

Respond to Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/04/08 at 9:29 pm
I am American by choice. I move to the USA from the Carribean as a young child. When I became an adult, I could choose to become a US citizen. I had to take an exam and probably know more about the USA than most Americans. Like I stated, you are no more American than anyone of us.

“Jealous competitors?”  I have been in the IT field for over 22 years.  I tell you that we are the most stupid
nation on earth. Which other nation would send not just jobs but technology knowledge overseas.  Soon we will be jealous of India and China.  China is already our biggest lender. You don’t seem to understand what we have given away. We Americans should stop being complacent. I see more of the given away the pie with McCain-Palin.

“Upping”- Do you know what it means? Do you know in the
Southern part of the US it is a derogatory remarks on blacks?

I had many Jewish friends growing up. Many Jews live in minority neighborhoods. We played together in same playground as kids. So,we are linked by our experiences.  Who do you think helped Jewish businesses? Suddenly, because of one idiot- Rev. Wright, some Jewish Americans feel that our long friendship will crumble under this one person gaff?  I don’t thinks so.  I would sit with my Jewish friends any day before I sit with McCain-Palin Pentecost hate spewing, oil drilling, don’t do as we do, do as we say- Republicans.

I am concerned about this election. I see the America that I grew up in forget about the people. Who cares if someone has no healthcare, no job, not able to pay the mortgage. Religion is being used in this election as a

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/05/08 at 2:10 am

C’mon, C’mon. “religion is neither the sole source nor best source of ethics” OK, who is the competition and in what way are they better? That’s a serious question that requires a demonstrable answer. It was not that historically long ago that there were no atheists at all, so ascibing human failings, national and ethnic rivalries to religion is fraudulent. France is Catholic, England is Anglican, Germany is Protestant, Russia is Orthodox, but does anyone really think their wars and wars and wars were about the divinity of Mary or some such?

And when it comes to belief systems, obviuously only the correct one can be judged on that basis. The Jews as an ideology killed no one at all for twenty centuries, during those times your opinion is based upon. However in the last century when atheism was institutionalized into politics, atheists murdered many times more people than all the believers did in the previous many centuries. Which to paraphrase you does not mean that secularists have no ethics and that believers have a monopoly on them.  But it does mean that the solution is not as simple as merely being rational. It also means that the majority of non-belief is blind and value-free, in other words rationality is not a test for non-belief.

“The statement that “the restoration of the Jewish nation in their homeland is the most ethical undertaking in history” is ridiculous.  By who’s standards?”
By your standards. Name your playing field; history, justice, precedent, legality, evidence, testimony, national self-determination. And in the matter how that nation conducts itself, the Jewish State can be proud to exceed the standards of any competition or critic.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/06/08 at 9:44 pm

Tony Jones,
What you are saying is wishful thinking. I wish it was true too. But the Jewish-Black relationship is mostly a one-way street. According to a survey by a black magazine Emerge, Jews are the least likely among any identifiable group to be racist. According to a poll by ADL, black people are three to four times more likely than others to be anti-semitic. Jews have extended themselves and risked their lives, money, positions and reputations on behalf of the advancement of black people, while the reverse is the great exception. Scratch almost any black person of achievment and they will list the Jewish people who had a part in their success, including Barack Obama. In spite of your understandable impatience with the issue, not only is it not outdated but it is increasing. Many speak of it as a mystery but I believe it is just a matter of bought-off leadership, kicking someone smaller, resentment against those who walk the walk you wish you could. This thing did not start in the 80’s but in earnest after the 1967 war, when the Soviet Union put serious money into radical groups and anti-Zionist propaganda, and the Arabs started to seed mosques and madrassas abroad. The Congressional Black Caucus has evolved into a hate group, and years ago entered into an ‘covenant’ with the Nation of Islam, and joined by the NAACP (founded by Jews). 30 percent of Muslims in America today are black. From an article by Larry Elder, “Fact: Jack Greenberg, a Jewish lawyer, was an important legal strategist in helping the NAACP in Thurgood Marshall’s Brown v. Board of Education case, which struck down the doctrine of separate but equal. (When Greenberg tried to teach a civil rights course at Harvard, students protested, arguing a black man should teach the course!)” It doesn’t have to make sense. If you were to listen to black talk radio you would be shocked at the casual anti-semitism expressed there.

I am not saying Obama is an antisemite, but he had and has people on his staff who are: Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Malley, Gen. Merrill “Tony” McPeak, Samantha Power. If Obama was a Jew and if Wright didn’t exist I wouldn’t consider him on the basis of these slithering evil creeps in line for influential positions in an Obama administration. It is a mark of unconscious antisemitism that Obama cannot understand this.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/06/08 at 10:56 pm

Look, ThePoliticalTruth,
I don’t know what you are talking about anymore. The issue is not about what people say. The Jews have no problem with liberal ideologies and politics, because the Jews pretty much invented them. Unfortunately, the Democrats have gone so far afield in their ideology that they are no longer Democratic. The Jews have found and continue to find that that ideology for various lame reasons does not apply to the Jews or Israel. This corruption ironically leads to a backlash that legitimizes the worst elements of competing ideologies.

The bottom line is that the Jews don’t trust Obama, his campaign, his staff, his associations, his ideology. either to do what he says he will or to do what is proper and just. For Jews to vote Republican is traditionally Plan B, but the poor offerings of the Democrats make it necessary.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/06/08 at 11:13 pm

Ben - Enough already. Your irrationality, intolerance and ignorance is astounding. Have you looked at who the Republicans are running? Thank goodness upwards of 67% of American Jews disagree with you and support Obama, including some high-ranking supporters who know him, REALLY know him, religious Jews from Chicago who have thrown their support and money behind him.

“I am not saying Obama is an antisemite, but he had and has people on his staff who are:...” Yes, don’t vote for him because the opposition are fair-minded caring people who would only throw away the entire middle class, Jews and all. Save your criticism for those who deserve it. Lay off the black-white stuff. If you don’t like the way it is, work to change it
instead of wallowing in your fantasies of injustice and victimization.

We need more people like Tony Jones. Not only is his language just fine—have you read what passes for literacy lately?  Anyway, I’d rather read good ideas than poor ones, no matter how they are expressed.

And please, save your sermons. Suggest you read more and write less.

Comment by Andrea R on 9/06/08 at 11:39 pm

The bottom line is that the SMART Jews DO trust Obama, his campaign, his staff, his associations, his ideology. BOTH to do what he says he will AND to do what is proper and just. For Jews to vote Republican is traditionally Plan B, but the IN THIS ELECTION IT IS PLAN Z. A marshmallow makes more sense than you.

Comment by Andrea R on 9/06/08 at 11:49 pm

It is true that Jews are traditionally Democrat, as even when they achieve success they still have a feeling for those who have not. This is most probably an echo of the most frequently expressed value in the Torah, of loving the stranger and foreigner as we too were foreigners before becoming established in our land. Old habits and traditions die hard.

It is ALSO true that less Jews and Jewish democrats support Obama than any Democrat in history. Obama lost the Jewish vote by 24% in the Pennsylvania primary (one of the highest Jewish concentration states). Not because they are racist or conservative, but because it is personal.

As far as Tony Jones is concerned, his initial long post was entirely concernd with the black nationalist and supremacist issue. I answered him civilly and factually, and he did the same, apprently not detecting the criticism that you did. The only think I said about language was to The

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/07/08 at 12:12 am

[comment cut off, continued] to ThePoliticalTruth who likewise explained without your resentment why his English was not native American.

If your implication about SMART Jews is that the majority of Jews and the majority of Democratic Jews who distrust Obama are dumb, have it your way. We think that Jewish Obama supporters are dumb, but that’s politics.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/07/08 at 12:17 am

Ben, What you have to look forward to: spending $15 a gallon on oil (while we run up our debt to China so we can send billions to the Middle East and Big Oil), your social security has been privatized, your pregnant daughter can’t get an abortion (a compromise of Jewish religious beliefs that you’ll just have to suck up) and your son has been drafted for the next 100 Years War, when you’ve spent all your money on health care because you don’t have insurance, your house is in foreclosure and all the tax breaks have gone to the wealthy so you have to declare bankruptcy, if they’ll allow it.

You can’t even relax with a book at your local library unless it’s not on the list that Palin attempted to ban in Alaska, including As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner; Brave New World by Aldous Huxley; Canterbury Tales by Chaucer; Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau; Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller; Decameron by Boccaccio; East of Eden by John Steinbeck; Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain; In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak; Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman; Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm; Lysistrata by Aristophanes; One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn; One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez; Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women’s Health Collective; Silas Marner by George Eliot; Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs; The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain; Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare and Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff, among many, many others.

Fight global warming? No. The Arctic National Wildlife Reserve? Who needs it. Gun control and stem cell research? No. Creationism taught in schools? Yes! I hope you enjoy life under the administration that campaigned against big government but proved that campaigning is all they do well, as witness the scandals, denial of habeas corpus, and attack on the right to privacy of its own citizens. And don’t look for help on Israel from Palin who aligns herself with the likes of Pat Buchanan, James Dobson and David Brickner.

Obama is a brilliant, honest, thoughtful man, a white-and-black man, whose family and background are examples of what makes America great. The rest of the world is ready to embrace him and restore America’s standing. Why should we prefer him to someone who was a playboy, cheated on his wife and left her in a wheelchair, got into school through family connections and graduated at the bottom of his class, supported Bush over 90% of the time, has offered no solutions of his own, changed his position on everything to advance his career, and whose most notable accomplishment in life was to be a POW. Why is because the men in his family do not have longevity and he could leave the most important job in the world in the hands of an unvetted neophyte who would be a tool of the far right.

The only thing we agree on is that Jewish people have a long and noble history of caring deeply about others. Doesn’t it bother you that you may help destroy that glorious tradition?

Comment by Andrea R on 9/07/08 at 2:24 pm

I second Andrea R’s comments.
If you want find fault on Obama you will find it. He is human. But you don’t seem to open your eyes to find fault in McCain. It is a one-way bashing of Obama.  McCain has his own Reverend problem and so does Palin. The Press that some of you despise has not over and over again shown Palin seated in the Pew while a Jew bashing Preacher gave a Sermon in her Church.  Seems to be attack Obama season. So whatever he does or do not do it will be criticize.
None of my good Jewish friends, who were there for me, would want to continue the downward spiral that America is in. When I see McCain I see more and more demised of the American Dream. As an Independent (not affiliated to either Party), I see that McCain’s own words (100 years more for Iraq, Bomb Iran, dont’know how many houses he has, economy is on track, etc.) are words of someone so who does not know how many people have less and less buying power in the USA. It is the economy stupid. And Obama has a plan that better work for the hard working Jewish friends that I grew up with. For me, a strong economic middle class America, is better in protecting Israel.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/07/08 at 11:44 pm

Side note: Before you comment on Iran, just let you know- I am a strong opponent of the oppressed regime.  But “cowboy” words and attacking Iran will not solve the problem but make it worse.  -
Let me add something about Sarah Palin- Jews don’t know her, black don’t know enough about her, America will not know enough about her before Nov 4.  We cannot gamble on this election.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/08/08 at 12:07 am

No time for Andrea and th kitchen sink right now. But to ThePoliticalTruth, I want to enlighten you to the fact that in some terms, this campaign is between McCain and Biden, and between Obama and Palin. They have just shuffled the deck. There is nothing bad you can say about McCain where Biden is not worse, and there is nothing bad you can say anout Palin where Obama is not worse. We don’t know enough about Palin? Obama is a big puzzle, and what we know is not that promising. Obama’s minister is a menace. Palin’s minister is an unknown who unfortunately invited a neurotic to speak. Obama’s great ideas won’t last past his first press conference in the real world.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/08/08 at 11:16 am

Oh. I must have missed something. Didn’t Obama win the Democratic nomination. Now you trying to demote him to VP nominee - by “shuffled the deck”?  I got news for you.  Like Obama said, “I was raised by a single mother, I would not be here if I did not have HOPE.”  For you see,  I have seen the Palin type before. Redneck Trash who do not like Jews, Blacks and Hispanics and then come out to say they are better? Are you kidding?  Obama is what this country needs right now. Straight talk.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/08/08 at 11:29 am

Ben, Being polite isn’t enough to hide your irrationality. You throw around insults, not facts, and your faulty assessment of people is appalling. I must assume that you voted for Bush who has been so wonderful for both Israel and America. Need I say more about your judgement?

Republican Political Vocabulary- (a lot of the kitchen sink left out)
minority selected over more qualified candidates=“token hire”
conservative selected over more qualified candidates= “game changer”
Democrat who didn’t vet running mate would be “reckless”
Republican who didn’t=maverick
spend 3 years as a community organizer growing your organization from a staff of 1 to 13 and your budget from $70,000 to $400,000, then become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, nearly 8 more years as a State Senator (district over 750,000 people), chairman of state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, nearly 4 years in US Senate (representing a state of nearly 13 million people), sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees= an “empty suit”
4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, then 20 months as governor of a state with 650,000 people, and Commander in Chief of the Alaska military=well qualified to lead the nation because your state is the closest to Russia.

Democratic candidate popular with millions of people=arrogant celebrity.
popular scandal-tainted Republican female candidate=energizing the base
younger male candidate who thinks for himself and makes his own decisions=presumptuous.
older male candidate who makes erratic last minute decisions= “shoot from the hip” maverick.
candidate with a Harvard law degree= elitist, out of touch with “real America”
legacy graduate of Annapolis with multiple disciplinary infractions, near bottom of class of nearly 900=a regular guy

go to a church with a sometimes kooky pastor= extremist beliefs
believe in creationism, secessionist, global warming not man-made=“strongly principled”
cheated on your first wife, left her disfigured to marry an heiress= good Christian.
married to the same woman for 19 years and raising 2 beautiful daughters together=“risky”

Comment by Andrea R on 9/08/08 at 12:46 pm

I said that about shuffling in the sense that both campaigns are putting up a partnership of ‘older experienced guy’ partnered with ‘energetic bright fresh face and ideas guy’. The choice for the top spot and the second spot has more to do with the personalities of the parties and their constituencies than anything else. Democrats rely on those who have more to gain, and Republicans rely on those who have more to lose. You may be like Dr. Phil, you may have ESP, but the news for you is that most people can get their own impressions and don’t agree that Palin’s appeal is as being superior and elitist. Actually that’s the argument they have against Obama.

And for Obama’s ‘straight talk’, they also consider Obama a sneaky wise-guy who talked ‘earnestness and youthful swagger’ while ‘community organizing’ every one of his opponents to the Illinois legislature off the ballot on teeny tiny technical ballot disqualifications.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121918996082755013.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/08/08 at 7:39 pm

If $15 a gallon oil is coming, it will not be Obama who will prevent it.

It is not a Jewish belief for a pregnant daughter to get an abortion. It is a non-Jewish belief like so many others endorsed by non-believing Jews. There are reasons Jewish law may permit it on a case by case basis but not because fetuses are disposable or inconvenient or cramp your style.

Re: Banning books. Here http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2008/09/palin-didnt-try.html is an item that points out that the purported list of books Palin wanted to ban was a phony, that no books were ever banned. I personally wouldn’t mind if “As I Lay Dying"was banned. My daughter is reading it for a college course and she really hates it, and I dislike seeing her suffer. On the other hand, long ago I tried to obtain for her one of the Dr. Dolittle books I had enjoyed as a kid, and my library had BANNED it because it was considered politically incorrect by the liberals, as it contained a black (‘Negro’) character who was stereotypical of the view of Africans in England in the early 20th century. So you see it is not the banning of books that is an issue for liberals but which books.

There is a principled opposition on that shopping list you threw together.
Global warming is not the same as man-made global warming. The casse is made that the ‘fight’ against global warming, besides being doomed is a giant boondoggle and wealth-transfer scheme. Those opposing wealth-transfer to Enron and Halliburton don’t mind it from rich nations to poor nations etc.
Modern drilling has a tiny impact on the environment compared to the bad old days or as practiced in China for example. The Wildlife preserve would be safe.
Gun control and stem cell research and Creationism are all controversial and will remain so. The Buchanan thing has been debunked.

Obama may well be brilliant and you can’t take that away from him. He didn’t do much as a community organizer (got some asbestos mostly removed from one building) and obtained his Senate seat through trickery. As a reform candidate he has never been indendant enough to ‘change’ the position of his party ever. He could qualify to clerk for a Supreme Court justice or as a top staffer in a government agency (though not a Cabinet member). But President?

Palin on the other hand carries an 80% approval rating in her electorate. For all her alleged fault or deficiencies.

The Jewish tradition of caring is safe, as Obama can thank many Jews who helped him along the way.

Oh yes, I voted for Gore the first time but I was sure glad he lost on 9/11/01. That could only remind us Gore did nothing in 1993 for the first WTC bombing. Of course I voted for Bush against that pompous phony Kerry last time.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/08/08 at 9:26 pm

Like Reagen stated “There you go again.”

I think your blind allegiance has got you in a demented rage.  Calm down and take a deep breath and you will see that after 34 years in the Senate, you can place only a few things McCain has done to really help the economy, education, reduce gas prices, reduce price of food, up the pay for working men and women.  Even till recently, the Right Wings were against him.

You use abortion too much in your thinking.  I am against murder but I do not base my decision based on if a candidate is for or against capital punishment. Got it?

Also, if someone you use the word Liberal too loosely.
Seems to be anyone who disagree with your extreme views.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/08/08 at 11:17 pm

I like that Reagan quote, thanks for reminding us. As a matter of fact McCain was not my first choice in the field, it was Giuliani. But McCain has his good qualities and has risen to the occasion better than I expected. The addition of Palin to the team has been complimentary to his strengths and has energized various lukewarm constituencies and brought in a lot of badly needed money, as Obama had been squeaking out a couple of extra poll points on McCain by outspending him over two to one.

Read back (use the ‘Find’ function of your browser if necessary) and you will see that I did not introduce abortion into this thread. Tony first demonized the right wing by overstating the tiny number of abortion clinic attacks by extremists but Andrea R really got me to respond by mistaking the significantly liberal Jewish trend for specifically Jewish values, something I have some knowledge and needed to correct. The abortion issue will not be settled by the executive anyway but it is good to protect the right of citizens to choose whether or not to abort a candidacy.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 3:03 am

Yee Hah! The Straight Talk express is a’rollin’

CNN - “Men’s support gives Palin edge in latest poll”
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/palin.poll/

The men like her!

Combine that with
Reuters - “Poll shows big shift to McCain among white women”
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN097920080909

The women like her even more!

ABC News - “
McCain Campaign Crowds Grow Exponentially”
“The ‘Palin Factor’ Bringing Excitement and Bigger Crowds to McCain Events”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5755471&page=1

Republican grass roots community organizing activism at work!

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 7:10 am

spam filter entry

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 7:24 am

Man you are so sensitive to what people say to you.
Personal attacks is unwarranted. We are all Americans- remmember my saying?
I remain calm as I tell you are misguided by your views.
McCain has his hands full of lobbyist. And if I were McCain and I became President, the first thing I would do is to get rid of Palin.  He will have good reasons to do so- not at least that he is a middle of the road Republican.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/09/08 at 7:47 am

I believe you said that I am in a ‘demented rage’. Nice phrase, that, but I did not reciprocate. Where do you think I engaged in a personal attack?

When I think of McCain and Palin, I think about what Hepburn said about Astair and Rodgers - “He gives her class, and she gives him sex [appeal]. It’s working. Not only that, but that admittedly risky move has turned the Democrats’ cause against them
“Oh yeah? I’ll see your black guy and raise you a woman!” That could not have happened with Hillary as VP nominee.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 8:22 am

$15 gas—who WILL prevent it then, the guys who brought it? we liberals want women to have the right to CHOOSE. we value life beyond bringing babies into the world. we care for them after they are here.

the crowds are prompted by CURIOSITY, NOVELTY, and the post convention BUMP.  people have to show up to see her because she’s being sequestered while they coach her on what to say. john can’t draw them on his own.

like you, they have to make it about personality, not about the issues, because the only thing fresh they have to say is what they take from Obama. Whether or not he wins the election, the FACTS show that he wins on character, ideas and ability. if you don’t like him personally, that says a lot more about you than him. You’re right on one thing, though—we know exactly what to expect from your guys. they’ve had 8 long years to prove it.

Comment by Andrea R on 9/09/08 at 9:14 am

The people who will prevent it are those who are outside of the Matrix, who really do think out of the box. All I am saying is that Obama who feels that it is good for us to experience expensive oil ain’t them.

You may want to know that Palin had a job as a TV commentator and has made countless speeches and addresses in up front and personal situations. She knows how to tell it and how it will be received and by whom. It is true that she has balanced the charisma element in the campaign.

You can’t say I don’t like Obama personally. I don’t know him personally. It is true he reminds me of people I don’t like professionally. And for your sake I hope he will grace us even as a non-President to show us what he is made of, that he has the right stuff; the character, ideas and ability to help save us from $15/gallon oil and bring world peace. Being an idealist and all. Call me cynical but I bet he does nothing as a non-President.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 10:44 am

“You can’t say I don’t like Obama personally. I don’t know him personally.” You are misreading what I said. Brush up on your English.

Obama has already shown us of what he is made. So have you.

“Call me cynical but I bet he does nothing as a non-President.” Well I hope we are smart enough to put him in the White House but doing nothing would be an improvement over this administration’s record.

Sorry to disturb your anti-liberal rant because it drowns out the fact that there are many fine Republicans out there. It’s unfortunate that the two running for the top spots in this election are not among them.

Comment by Andrea R on 9/09/08 at 11:10 am

I disagree that liberal women show any special value for life. You would have to prove it to me, talk and blogging doesn’t count. My impression is that many women and especially teens brought up in your pseudo-ideology regard fetuses as inconvenient and lifestyle threatening obstacles and take advantage of everything from abortion to disposal to abandonment to infanticide to lose the problem, and many children of those amoral monsters who live suffer even worse. The foster care systems are overwhelmed and have given up or turn a blind eye to many atrocities. This decaeds after Roe V Wade. Give it up. It didn’t work, didn’t convince those who matter, and won’t last. I would put peoplelike you and your so-called doctors into a war-crimes trial.

As I explained earlier, if you do not safeguard the borders of life, then the rest of life is damaged and devalued. Part of the proof is in the material I linked to and pasted snippets of; that siblings of aborted fetus exhibit ongoing depression; an unstated bewilderment and defeat at the cheapness and meaninglessness of life as conveyed by the closest person they know in life. When the human life/death ice has been broken many of these children become pessimistic and discouraged and express a wish that they had also been aborted in the face of challenges.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 11:24 am

Oops, look what crossed in the mail.

You said “if you don’t like him personally, that says a lot more about you than him.” How is that misreading what you said?

To defend Obama’s future non-performance as a non-President is a cop-out. You probably were screeching the same stuff about Kerry. Admit it. What has Kerry done lately? Ever?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 11:27 am

Maybe you too should get married. This topic just keeps going round and round.  I made my point. Take care.

Comment by ThePoliticalTruth on 9/09/08 at 1:42 pm

What was it? Remind us…

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/09/08 at 4:45 pm

With my experience I would compare Ms. Palin with many tough Russian women. She could be a Lenin’s dream. He told that time will come when any maid can govern the country. The problem is that an ignorance in many international relations can mislead her advisers (who do not even imagine the level of ignorance). Why do Americans dislike well educated people? Ms. Palin’s extremism is also very worrisome.

Comment by Lana Kovi on 9/13/08 at 1:22 pm

Lana,

I agree that women should be able to govern, and welcome the day when they are judged on their views rather than their gender. For more on what the M-P ticket would mean, please read this article by Menachem Rosensaft whose mother, Hadassah, survived Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen (where Menachem was born after the war. He is Adjunct Professor of Law at Cornell University Law School, Founding Chairman of the International Network of Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, Chairman of the Editorial Board of the Holocaust Survivors’ Memoirs Project (a joint publishing endeavor with Yad Vashem in Jerusalem), Vice President of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and Their Descendants, Honorary President of Park Avenue Synagogue in New York City, and a former National President of the Labor Zionist Alliance. He was appointed to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council by President Bill Clinton in 1994, reappointed to a second five-year term in 1999, and served on the Council’s Executive Committee from 1996 until 2003. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/menachem-rosensaft/a-mccain-palin-supreme-co_b_125341.html

Comment by Andrea R on 9/13/08 at 2:03 pm

It seems that Professor Rosensaft agrees with political-science Professor Mohammad-Ali Fardanesh of Iranian state-run Shahid Behshti University. In an interview on IRIB (Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting television network) he states clearly:
For Farsi speakers: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1843.htm
For the rest of us: http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1843.htm

“He [McCain] doesn’t know anything, poor thing. He is terrible. Let me tell you, he’s awful… Mr. Obama’s perspective is more clear… Mr. Biden is a very respectable man. He has a good reputation, and he is respectable and healthy… True, Obama has no experience, but McCain not only has no experience, but doesn’t even know where “abroad” is. The poor thing is very absent-minded…”

“[Palin] ... doesn’t have any experience… Mrs. Clinton… was outstanding and prominent. She is one of the strongest women in American history. Now, Mrs. Palin – whose name they don’t even pronounce correctly… Will she manage to attract Clinton’s voters? No.”

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/13/08 at 10:06 pm

Oooo.  Guilt by association—skeeeery!

Milllions of Americans agree, too.

Bzzt.  Try again.

Comment by The Web Guy on 9/13/08 at 10:39 pm

My, my, surely you are aware that there are many people who speak both farsi AND english, so “the rest of us” doesn’t really apply. How comforting that a holocaust survivor and an Iranian professor might have some things in common — not with you, perhaps, but with each other (and many of “the rest of us”).

You have an odd way of extrapolating from what was quite a level-headed, serious interview so I’ve taken the liberty of [marking like this] the bits you “overlooked” :

Interviewer: Many experts believe that the crises in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine are the Achilles’ heel of America. Therefore, we should ask whether there is any difference between the Democratic and Republican parties with regard to the issue of Iraq. Is there any difference between them?

M-AF: [Yes. Mr. Obama’s perspective is more clear.] Only yesterday, they transferred control of the Al-Anbar province to the Iraqi government, on the first day of Ramadhan. This is something Mr. Obama has been saying. Mr. Obama has said several times: “Al-Qaeda operates in 80 countries, but we got ourselves entangled in Iraq. Our presence in iraq is what led Al-Qaeda to begin to operate there.” That’s why Mr. Obama and his team… [Mr. Biden is a very respectable man. He has a good reputation, and he is respectable and healthy.] He has been in the Senate for 36 years, since he was 29. They are more knowledgeable in foreign affairs. [True, Obama has no experience, but McCain not only has no experience, but doesn’t even know where “abroad” is. The poor thing is very absent-minded.]

Interviewer: McCain has declared that if he is elected, American forces will stay in Iraq 100 years. Based on this, can we draw any conclusion about which party is more likely to win?
Mohammad-Ali Fardanesh: My problem is that McCain is a war hero, a senior pilot, whose plane crashed in Vietnam and who spent eight and a half years at war. He is a respectable, humane, honest, and patriotic man, but when it comes to foreign policy and domestic affairs, he doesn’t have anything to offer.[...]

Interviewer: Is the fact that [Palin] is a woman likely to appeal to women, and to arouse feminist sentiment in American society?

M-AF: Definitely. Dr. Kamrava mentioned the question of her experience. I don’t think her husband knows about her experience either. [She doesn’t have any experience.]

Interviewer: She spent two years as governor of Alaska.

M-AF: 16 months. She was the mayor of a town of 10,000 residents. The previous governor of Alaska was a very corrupt man, and anybody running against him would have won. That’s how she won. No. My answer is “no.” Just like Obama is a phenomenon, as I said, [Mrs. Clinton], with her academic record, her determination, and her expertise in various issues, [was outstanding and prominent. She is one of the strongest women in American history. Now, Mrs. Palin – whose name they don’t even pronounce correctly… Will she manage to attract Clinton’s voters? No.]
................................................

Nothing alarming or insulting here. btw, it is my own opinion that Hillary will play a prominent future role in the Democratic party and Obama’s coterie. I doubt that the American people will be duped. My concern is that your ilk will try to steal yet another election. To quote a brilliant politician and a fine man who is as fed up as many of “the rest of us” — enough!

Comment by Andrea R on 9/14/08 at 12:11 am

Yes. Millions of Americans agree. Nothing was really added by cutting and pasting the entire interview. Naturally the professor is an intelligent and well-spoken man. My actual point was obviously that a spokesman for a rogue and enemy regime just so happens to reflect all the Democratic talking points. It could have been put out by the Obama campaign and for all we know it was.

This recalls the quickly withdrawn interview with the Hamas leader clearly stating that Obama was the candidate most in tune with the policy and realities of Hamas. In terms of ideology and now operational ties we put Hamaas and Hezbollah in one basket, and Hezbollah is a cat’s paw for Iran. See how it hangs together?

Andrea - Trying to undermine my point with the incidental reference to Farsi speakers is really scraping the bottom of the barrel; focusing on it is really a little needy and desperate. If you have any substantive disagreements with my ilk we can deal with them and cut out the Iranian middle man.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/14/08 at 6:16 am

Much was added, and that was not the entire interview, just the entire section from which you quoted. The professor was not speaking to us, so not acting as “a spokesman for a rogue and enemy regime” — there are many supporters of America in Iran but, rather than support them, with the wrong people in power here I’m sure we can unify them against us just as we have done in Iraq.

As for groups that are sworn enemies of Israel, whichever of them prefers whichever of our candidates will not determine which candidate has a better chance of leading us out of this war and not into another one. This “hangs together” only in a simplistic mind, an exclusionary one that lumps all Farsi speakers together, one that forgets America has more than one enemy. Thanks to the past 8 years we are less able than ever to confront them and far less able to care for our own.

We are falling apart and putting us back together needs to be our first priority. You don’t sound like someone who really cares about this country or who realizes that a strong America can better defend itself AND Israel and will face less provocation to do either.

Comment by Andrea R on 9/14/08 at 9:17 am

The only section I know is the part posted on MEMRI.

Every public expression in a theocratic dictatorship speaks for the regime. Others do not get on the air, or disappear. Somehow we are not hearing from those famous Iranian supporters of America, only from American supporters of Iran (hint hint).

The groups that are sworn enemies of Israel are doing quite nicely influencing peoiple like you concerning your candidate of choice. Why, the Obama campaign advisory staff is crawling with them! Including Biden whose only view of Israel has to do with ‘aid for integrity’ rather than a genuine comprehension of the purpose and identity and just cause of Israel, not to mention a failure to appreciate the real benefits that Israel bestows upon the international community.

The only Farsi speakers I am referring to are any of the fairly large number of Persian Jews in the United States who might be reading this. I certainly don’t lump them in with any enemies of the US or Israel. Duh.

America has indeed one more enemy, and our failure to stomp them like cockroaches is enabling them to breed out of control. Human nature favors winners. Enemies who survive will become friends right quick. The past eight years took a rusted impotent American force that couldn’t raise its head in stinking places like Bosnia and Somalia, who was afraid to prosecute the first WTC attack, the embassy bombiungs and the USS Cole attack and turned it into an experienced and comitted military.

What you don’t realize is that the McCain/Palin ticket represents a bold new face for America rather than the disjointed, timid, ‘safe’ ticket of Obama/Biden. Sure the Democrats have the support of Hamas and Iran, and other foreign support. America has many enemies and friendly rivals as well. Now we’ll see if they have domestic support, hopefully without Obama’s thirty lawyer operatives in Alaska finding an opening to sabotaging the electoral process and subverting the will of the people.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/14/08 at 8:36 pm

you know, our enemies aren’t as dumb as we think they are… nor are they as monolithic as we think.  Furthermore, if an Ahmajinidad said “The Sky is Blue” - you know what, he would be right - the sky is, in fact, blue.  Just because they are enemies of Israel does not make them wrong on basic facts -like the color of the sky, Palin’s laughable lack of experience or McCain’s hawkishness.

Those are statements of fact - backed up by their own statements and the facts.  Our Iranian state professor is not wrong simply because he is an Iranian state professor… he, too, can see that the “sky is blue.”

Comment by Me Too on 9/14/08 at 9:44 pm

Maybe people see the sky they wish for. Aside from parroting the Democratic talking points down the line, the professor’s hard-hitting analysis overlooks the elephant in the room, i.e. the acquisition of nuclear warhead capability on top of the advanced missile technology posessed by the mullocracy. As well the quality of foreign policy ‘experience’ and hawkishness of his own irresponsible government. It is possible to say that without a credible enemy and threat, more people could fool themselves into seeing through Obama-colored glasses. Jews in particular who identify with Israel have already enjoyed the largess of Iranian industry flying over their northern borders into their population centers.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/17/08 at 3:17 am

IS PALIN GOOD FOR JEWS. THE ANSWER IS NO.

MY WIFE COMES FROM A FAMILY of Baptists and Pentacostals. She has several relatives who go to Assembly of God church. She is not part of either church.

She is also married to me, a man who was brought up Jewish.

For all you Jewish Americans (practicing or not) there are some things I have learned by being married to my wife. With Pentacostals like Sarah Palin, please be warned.

Pentacostals, like all Fundamentalists and Evangelicals,  believe that Jews should convert to Christianity or they will go to hell.  These Christians will give Jews lip service because they are taught that Jews are “special” to God.  At the same time, around their own kitchen table,  they will say that only those who accept Jesus Christ as his/her savior will be accepted by God.

My wife’s friend who is a born again evangelical said to me with a smile, “you’re on the right road, but you’re not there yet.”  I took it as a joke, but my wife later told me her friend wasn’t joking. Wow. How condescending.

Please remember all the White Protestant country clubs that refuse to allow Jewish members to join. The mentality is still there.
To our faces it is a different story, it may be about let’s all join together and fight the evil, but it is a two-faced system.

I wish Couric would’ve asked Palin “Do you believe that Jews must accept Jesus as the Son of God and worship him?”  Someone needs to ask Palin this question. I’m sure Palin will try to sidestep the question, but this is a serious issue and she needs to give all of us a clear yes or no answer with no beating around the Bush!

Comment by Allan on 10/09/08 at 4:19 pm

I don’t care about people who rightly or wrongly think I am going to hell. I have bigger problems than joining a country club full of people who don’t like Jews.

Obama has a whole stable of antisemites who are itching to put sanctions on Israel, end relationships with Israel, slice more pieces of Israel off, internationalize Jerusalem, put Israel’s security under UN, EU, Quartet and Vatican control, and duplicate the UN protectors of Hezbollah in Lebanon to every other border in Israel including Gaza, and are ready with sad speeches about the loss of life in Israel due to Hezbollah and Iranian rockets.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 10/09/08 at 6:50 pm

And McCain, himself, is pretty clearly a racist.  He treats Obama like the first black member of the country club - McCain would have been comfortable if Obama were a busboy, bartender or gardener, but god forbid he is part of the foursome in front of McCain.  I doubt that Palin has ever seen an African-American, either.

With regard to anti-semitism, evangelical christians are notoriously anti-semitic.  Have we forgotten the KKK?  Stormfront?  The White Supremacists (there is a ton of crossover between these populations).  It is childish to think that either McCain’s military/country-club background, or Palin’s pentacostal/poor-white background are any less antisemitic than Farrakhan or Wright.

Comment by Hmmm on 10/09/08 at 6:58 pm

McCain has never brought up race and never would. All the race talk in this campaign has been about Black Supremacism, not White. By your standards, why waste time with Obama? Just have Jeremiah Wright run for President and be done with it. After all,the only reason not to vote for the ‘black liberation theology’ teacher and master would have to be racism, wouldn’t it?

Palin’s variety of evangelicals are not anti-semitic. It is Jimmy Carter’s variety that are the KKK type of evangelical. I’m not hoding my breath for antisemitism to disappear to participate in the voting process. What is childish is not to see is Obama’s career and campaign associations to find anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist activists. All the ones that have not been fired or dissociated for being too obvious are right there in the flesh today[i/], not in the abstract.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 10/09/08 at 7:56 pm

Rebecca said:

Sarah Palin is Jewish.

Her maternal grandfather, Schmuel Sheigam, was a Lithuanian Jew, born in 1912 in Vilkaviskis, Lithuania, 91.2 miles west of Vilnius. The Sheigam family immigrated to America, via Hamburg, Germany in 1915 because of WWI. The grandmother was a Jewess named Gower.

The Names Are Altered

At Ellis Island Immigration Centre, the name was entered as Sheeran, a standard practice of the time when immigration officers were unable to understand the pronunciation of non-English speaking immigrants. Sheeran is a common Irish name but members of the Sheigam family are buried in the Jewish cemetery at Budezeriai near Vilkaviskis:in Lithuania

Documentation

Further information on Governor Palin’s ancestors can easily be found in the vital records in the Lithuanian State Historical Archives in Vilnius. The Archives holds birth, marriage, divorce, and death records for the Lithuanian Jewish community from 1851 until 1915 when the Jews were required to leave the country because of World War I. They are in 18th Century Cyrillic script and Yiddish Many of these records include the mother’s maiden name and town of registration.

Sally, Sarah’s mom was raised Jewish. Her dad, Chuck also had a Jewish mother. So both Sarah’s maternal grandparents were Jewish as was her paternal grandmother. Chuck became an evangelical Christian and that is how Sarah was raised…but her background is mostly Jewish!

Comment by Rebecca on 10/12/08 at 9:46 pm

Absolute, ridiculous bullsh*t.

Here’s the original —neo-Nazi haters.

Comment by The Web Guy on 10/12/08 at 9:51 pm

Look, my education might be in an irrelevant field and this might all be “above my pay grade”, but this is the worst discourse on this subject I have ever seen. Whatever party you are affiliated with, simply vote for it. Whoever you like for whatever reason, please like them. But the degree to which it seems people are willing to extend their defense of Sarah Palin, regardless of the facts, almost as if they are trying to convince themselves, would seem to me to cause much more internal and permanent collateral damage on one’s soul. Vote how you are going to vote, but don’t lie to yourself, don’t ignore real facts, and never sink so low that your intellect is compromised and reduced to campaign talking points and press releases. Incredible…

Comment by Tony Jones on 10/13/08 at 8:01 am

Well, Tone, you note is just great except for the phrase “their defense of Sarah Palin, regardless of the facts”. Nothing wrong with being rational and objective except for your trying to play King of the Mountain and claim the high ground. All the sophistry in the campaign is in the direction of obscuring that Obama is unknown and untested as a leader with no followers (only ‘supporters’) and problematic associations, while his understudy has few accomplishments in a long career, is intellectually unsteady, has a spotty policy record and is an insufferable gasbag.

And of further obscuring that McCain has a distinguished personal and professional record of accomplishment longer than Biden, and that Palin has a personal and professional record of accomplishment and approval and talent of her peers and contamporaries and supporters and followers.

Have they ever made mistakes? Sure. Compare the candidates on that basis. Could they be better? Sure. Ditto.

But:

Vote how you are going to vote, but don’t lie to yourself, don’t ignore real facts, and never sink so low that your intellect is compromised and reduced to campaign talking points and press releases.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 10/13/08 at 10:23 am

Ok good one lol…Well, I wasn’t trying to play King of the Mountain. Rather I was simply pointing out that it makes little or no sense to offer “distinctions” between candidates if your support isn’t based on those distinctions. Some people are simply homers, who root for their team and there’s nothing wrong with that. Why become a soundboard for a bunch of teenagers sitting in a campaign war room? I’ve trained some of these political “game-players” and I know they are sophists, I know they want to win at any cost and they engage in entertaining intra-debates whereby our very real issues are for them game pieces in hypothetical thoughtspaces. They could just as soon run a very effective campaign against their candidate and would love it. What else would explain JMC working with the same Bush staff who killed him in previous elections? It’s hilarious to think you have people upholding your fine record and record, who trashed it years before. Once we start internalizing these details as if they believe it, it becomes even more hilarious. In his critique of sophistry and our love for taking it in, Plato’s Socrates refers to us as sheep. The truth is, most of these guys don’t have a problem with a left wing politician having contact with left wing activists. Until 2001, Ayers, who won Man of the Year and mingles with Republicans and Democrats, was a joke. Obviously now its a bigger deal and its bad luck for Obama. Most political people would call it just that. It’s a game to these people, trust me.

As for my mention of facts, maybe I’m wrong. But if associations and Palin’s record and accomplishment are important, then my inclusion of “facts” is relevant, unless my facts are wrong. Are they?

1.  Is it true that Todd Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party from 1995 to 2002?
2.  Is it true that the AIP’s charter commits the party “to the ultimate independence of Alaska,” from the United States which it refers to as “the colonial bureaucracy in Washington.” Does it proclaim Alaska’s 1959 induction as a state “as illegal and in violation of the United Nations charter and international law.”

3.  Is it true that the AIP’s creation was inspired by the rabidly violent anti-Americanism of its founding father Joe Vogler, “I’m an Alaskan, not an American,” reads a favorite Vogler quote on AIP’s current website, “I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.” Is it true that AIP’s central purpose is to drive Alaska’s secession from the United States.

Alaska, says current Chairwoman Lynette Clark, “should be an independent nation.”

4.  Did AIP founder say, “The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government.”?

5.  Is it true that the AIP, with sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, was scheduled to present their case for Alaskan secession from American tyranny and imperialism before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993?

6.  Is it true that Sarah Palin met AIP Chairman Mark Chryson in the early 90’s when he was a member of a local libertarian pressure group called SAGE, or Standing Against Government Excess. (SAGE’s founder, Tammy McGraw, was Palin’s birth coach.), while Palin was a leader in a pro-sales-tax citizens group called WOW, or Watch Over Wasilla.

7.  Is it true that Sarah Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced a host of anti-tax, pro-gun initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution’s language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. Did she join in their vendetta against several local officials they disliked, and listened to their advice about hiring.

8.  Is it true that AIP has forged alliances with outright white supremacists organizations?

9.  Is it true that Sarah Palin attended the AIP convention in 1994?

10.  Is it true that Sarah Palin attended and gave the keynote speech in 1996?

11.  Is it true that Sarah Palin attended the AIP convention in 2000?

12.  Is it true that Sarah Palin addressed the AIP convention in 2006 while running for governor?

13.  Is it true that Sarah Palin addressed the AIP convention as governor in 2008 remarking on their importance to Alaska.

14.  Is this true: “During the 1990s, when Chryson directed the AIP, he and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing Palin

15.  Is it true that Sarah Palin named Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known in the Mat-Su Valley as “Black Helicopter Steve,” to an empty Wasilla City Council seat?

16.  Is this true? “Imagine the uproar if Michelle Obama was revealed to have joined a black nationalist party whose founder preached armed secession from the United States and who enlisted the government of Iran in his cause? The Obama campaign would probably not have survived such an explosive revelation. Particularly if Barack Obama himself was videotaped giving the anti-American secessionists his wholehearted support just months ago.”

17.    Is it true that AIP is now touting Sarah Palin as the perfect example for how their members and agendas can best be pursued through infiltration of the major parties? Are they now talking about small town values and conservative approaches to issues like state rights offer the best place to make their extreme positions acceptable? Is there a YouTube available publicly where this is made clear?

Comment by Tony Jones on 10/13/08 at 12:20 pm

I don’t know if all that is true, but based upon the use and non-use of that information in the campaign I am going to say that 90% is not true and the other 10% just attests to the crackpot nature of some people. AIP was founded in the 70’s when a whole host of crackpot movements and figures gained strength not least including Farrakahan’s leadership of the Nation of Islam and Wright’s Black Liberation Theology in the Trinity megachurch. I suspect that Alaska has a greater tolerance for oddballs than other places as much of its population is transplanted from elsewhere.

I think the main point here is that with or without all these challenges to ‘fact’, Palin was elected governor and has enjoyed an 80% approval rating there. If any or all of that were true, then you are saying that at least 80% of Alaska as a whole reflects an AIP mentality which is obviously untrue. AIP never got more than about 5% of votes, and considering its headqurters is in Wasilla there was no avoiding them for Sarah Palin. It is possible to have a principled opposition to and not be responsible for someone who is after all one’s neighbor.

It is almost inevitable considering that Alaska runs a positive balance of trade so to speak with the rest of the country so that they feel they losing something by the relationship. Of course they have no leg to stand on as it was the US Federal government that purchased Alaska from Russia in the first place. There is a similar situation in New York City where there are people adding up the amount of money sent to Washington or Albany in comparison with the amount of money coming back in programs and services, and advocating statehood for the city. Even within NYC Staten Island has its own secessionist movement.

What distinguishes AIP from Obama’s crackpot allies is that AIP is non-violent and not ethnically or racially based but only politically based, and that they work entirely through non-violent political ballot-based initiatives. That is wholly consistent with the American political freedoms as racial and ethnic and violent revolutionary agendas are not. They do make some points as is evidenced on their webpages, their Wikipedia entry and this which long predates any Palin connection or controversy.

As for “Imagine the uproar if Michelle Obama was revealed etc.”, there would be no uproar at all, as Obama’s supporters are proven not to care about anything negative regarding them whatsoever. it is worth noting that Obama enjoys less Jewish support than any other Democratic candidate in history, which is significant given the low racism level of Jews coupled with their high level of education, participation and political and media awareness.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 10/15/08 at 11:15 pm

When Sarah Palin just resigned as the Governor of Alaska, many commentators wrote her political obituary. The lack of a power base in the statehouse, make her have no chance for further national role. Her slightly stumbling resignation speech can be considered as a validation that the Palin phenomenon is now fading away.

Comment by Mika on 9/01/09 at 6:12 am

Don’t worry. Commentators are meaningless. They don’t constitute reality or reflect reality. With the explosion of media outlets and multiplexed digital channels, there is a demand for content to fill them, and there are more commentators all cribbing from each other than ever before.

And with role models like that, it is not surprising that you think that parroting some commentator passes for actual thinking.

Here is what’s happening: Palin is building grassroots support using the new personal media such as Facebook and Twitter. Palin’s fundraising PAC is up and rolling. Palin is meeting and addressing strategic supporters.

All this while Obama’s confidence and trust numbers are nosediving, while Obama’s policies have fizzled, while it has become evident that he is shafting the majority to pay off the minority, while he is looking more and more idiotic, in fact exactly like the media portrayed Palin during ht campaign - “like we want to set up death panels to pull the plug on Grandma - c’mon!”, while Iran is ridiculing him and the USA and he desperately seeks to shift the blame for that on Israel. The midterm Congressional elections will sweep out his artificial base of support and Obama will be a lame duck from that moment on.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 9/01/09 at 8:12 pm

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