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Messiah Obama’s Middle East advisory team is a gallery of knaves and fools, including the nominally Jewish ones. The stupidity phase of Jewish self-abuse is drawing to a close.

Jerusalem is not on the table; never was and never will be. Speech of dividing Jerusalem is offensive, even speech pledging not to divide it (as if that was an option) is offensive.

Go divide Mecca and the Vatican, Washington and Moscow and Beijing and London and Paris and Damascus and Cairo and Baghdad if you like.

By all means, visit Jerusalem, check out the souvenir stand and beat it, it’s closing time.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/06/08 at 12:06 pm

What should be on the table is our aid to Israel and the fact that AIPAC does not register as a foreign agent. If Israel wants to bully its neighbors, can’t they at least do it on their own dime?

Comment by LanceThruster on 6/06/08 at 4:01 pm

Jerusalem has not to be divided and is no matter of negociations.
It is never mentioned in the Koran. Muslim have Mekka.

Ralph

Comment by ralph on 6/07/08 at 12:18 am

It’s a moot point, since neither Obama or American Jews actually have a say in dividing Jerusalem. That will be a decision based on practical considerations made by the CITIZENS of Israel and its voting electorate, not the selfish and melo-dramatic whims of diaspora Jewry.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/07/08 at 6:42 am

Yeah, American Jews only seem to have a say when it lines up with the tenets of Zionism. In any other circumstance apparently, thay can just pipe down.

Israel and Zionists sure act like they don’t need anyone else to tell them what to do, even when they come with their hat in hand looking for a handout. To use Dr. Finkelstein’s phrase, it is “beyond chutzpah.”

Comment by LanceThruster on 6/07/08 at 11:32 am

“...Yeah, American Jews only seem to have a say when it lines up with the tenets of Zionism. In any other circumstance apparently, thay can just pipe down.”

Yes, the American Jewish community appreciates your concern for their rights. I’m sure they’ll be happy to show their appreciation as soon as your done quibbling about the number of Jewish corpses that were incinerated and whether or not the shower heads were really up to the task of gassing 6 million human beings.

In any event, west Jerusalem has been a contiguous part of the State of Israel since 1948, East Jerusalem,though occupied and its final status not in any way settled, is at the present time being administered by the Israeli gov’t. To the extent that these are issues that only pertain directly to and affect tangibly the residents of these areas, this is a question of national policy to be decided by those affected, namely the citizens of Israel and the PA. Not by theo-facist or liberal American Jews attempting to craft an Israel that doesn’t offend their sensibilities, and certainly not by 50 year old, pissed off single white boys that can’t get laid and who spend their time venting their rage in the form of jew-hatred disguising itself as concern for humanity. Yeah, I checked your myspace page. From what I can tell, anti-semitism is the least of your problems. Now I know why your call yourself LanceThruster. Couldn’t hurt to think positively, eh?

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/07/08 at 12:29 pm

So you only like big penises Yam? (not that there’s anything wrong with that) Hey, whatever floats your boat.

I would hope that Israelis, Jews, and the American Jewish community has concerns for my right to help choose the direction of *our* republic without making the Israel’s needs or desires override our own.

If you can’t make the anti-Semitism accusations stick (which you can’t) you’ll put your efforts into worrying about where my penis has been (or will be) as you try to dig up dirt. You are a vile cretin at worst, and an unworthy opponent at best.

Comment by LanceThruster on 6/07/08 at 12:49 pm

“...If you can’t make the anti-Semitism accusations stick”

I don’t even need to try. You’re doing a terrific job of it all on your own.

“..you’ll put your efforts into worrying about where my penis has been”

I’m not worried about it, but if I was 50, single, sitting at home playing pocket pool while surfing the web looking for jews to yell at, I wouldn’t be worried about where it has been, I’d be more concerned about where it hasn’t been.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/07/08 at 12:56 pm

SY and LT,
You guys are definitely pushing the limits of this blog’s limited moderation. Discourse is great, but keep it civil, and avoid all the talk of the male genitalia and where or when someone can stick it.

Comment by Brad A. Greenberg on 6/07/08 at 1:25 pm

OK, let’s go back to the topic.

To ‘Lance Thruster’ (ooooh…)
The name, American-Israel Public Action Committee pretty well states its purpose. It is made up of Americans who contribute and participate in the political process to make the case for their concerns, which do not violate American interests, unlike the Islamic terror front organizations such as CAIR. I would say that political support is much more important to Israel than economic support, which in any case pays the US enormous dividends in technological, intelligence and security areas. Aid to Israel should be tripled if we were smart investors, unlike the money given to the Arabs and the UN which goes straight down the toilet.

To ‘Shoded Yam’
The 1948 and on Israel is to be regarded as a continuation and subset of the 1312 BC and on Israel. Its only CITIZENS are Jews in good standing in terms of Jewish law, inside and outside the land, and not whatever cockamamie regulations your Italian-style government has dreamt up. It is a symptom of your political disorder that you consider the evil enemy savages of the ‘PA’ to have more legitimacy than diaspora Jews who are loyal to the ancient Israelite cause. All this ‘since 1948’ and ‘at the present time’ jazz is irrelevant. Jews have been kicked out of Jerusalem several times, none of them legitimate or authorized. The last time in 1948 from the Eastern part, by foreign Arab rioters and terrorists and by foreign British ‘policemen’ whose authority over Jews in their homeland was not legitimate either. As happened in Transjordan, southern lebanon, Gaza, and Judea/Samaria. What in your traitorous opinion legitimizes those expulsions.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/07/08 at 9:40 pm

And oh yes, ten minutes after all the Jews played Hail to the Chief for his courageous support for Israel, he can’t keep it going long enough to get the benefit of it. We knew it wouldn’t last, but this is ridiculous. As I said coming in, he is captive to enemies of Israel on his staff and campaign.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/07/08 at 9:48 pm

“...The 1948 and on Israel is to be regarded as a continuation and subset of the 1312 BC and on Israel. Its only CITIZENS are Jews in good standing in terms of Jewish law, inside and outside the land, and not whatever cockamamie regulations your Italian-style government has dreamt up.”

So says the Kahanist in Fresh Meadows

My political disorder?

Weren’t you the guy that said Guiliani would be the next president?

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/08/08 at 8:19 am

The Jewish nation is the not the first, but the oldest living nation under an advanced and highly developed ideological and legal framework. They will remain so forever. Do you really think that some fuzzbrained votes in the Knesset constitute Jewish law?

Jerusalem was, is and will be Jewish. Jews are one with Israel, the whole of Israel (‘Greater Israel’ if you like), and nothing but Israel. That’s the unchangeable law. It does not matter if Jews are forced out of all or part of it for a given historic period. You are the shining example that you can take a Jew out the Diaspora, but you can’t take the Diaspora out of the Jew. So you accept the British lines, the cease-fire lines, the UN lines, the Quartet lines, the Brzinski lines? Good thing you and your opinion-mates are dust in the wind.

Hey, they don’t say ‘Kahane Chai’ for nothing. He’s dead, and yet lives. In contrast, didja know that Olmert’s kids did not serve in the IDF and live outside of Israel? Didja know that Ehud Barak’s kids did not serve in the IDF and do not live in Israel? Your government has already given up, are already in exile. Maybe you can hoist a cold one together in LA.

Good job changing the subject, though.

And your political disorder is that you don’t have a contxt for your politics. Politics does not exist in a vaccuum. Politics is an arm of an ideology, of a philosophy, of values, of principles. What are yours, ‘reject all roots?’

Now I will show you why you and they are losers.
Quote: “Jerusalem is Muslim. The blessed Al Aksa mosque and Harem Al Sharif [Temple Mount] is 100 percent Muslim. The Israelis are playing with fire when they threaten Al Aksa with digging that is taking place,” said Abbas’s chief of staff, Rafiq Al Husseini, in an interview…

“Any hurting of Jerusalem will explode the whole negotiations between us and the Israelis ... we must work to strengthen Palestinian ties to Jerusalem,” Husseini said.
End Quote.

Husseini is doing a good job. Israel’s political leadership should be saying
“Jerusalem is Jewish. The blessed Temple Mount is 100 percent Jewish. The Arabs are playing with fire when they threaten our Temple Mount with digging that is taking place,”...

“Any hurting of Jerusalem will explode the whole negotiations between us and the Arabs ... we must work to strengthen Jewish ties to Jerusalem,”

Why can’t they do that simple thing? Because they are looooooooosers.
That’s why you are a loser.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/08/08 at 12:45 pm

And lest we forget. I was right about Giuliani. Giuliani should have been the Republican candidate and next President. He wasted his time and money being Mr. 911 instead of focussing on his tremendous reputation and track record. The fact is, Giuliani saved new York before 911, enabling it to survive 911.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/08/08 at 12:48 pm

No, I’m afraid not. You were wrong about Guiliani, and “lest we forge"t you were wrong about Clinton as well. You’re 2 and 0. Judging by your track record, I think I’m looking at easy money here. Care to place a bet regarding the winner of the Presidential Election? I’ll give you good odds, vic. Maybe Brad can hold the money for us.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/08/08 at 1:07 pm

BTW, Giuliani would have obliterated O’Bama on substance. I am noit as impressed with McCain.

What do you remember my saying about Clinton?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/08/08 at 1:17 pm

BTW, Giuliani would have obliterated O’Bama on substance.

Nope. Sorry. It has since come to light that much of Guliani’s image was alot of smoke and mirrors, not backed up by anything except alot of media hype based on 9/11 that afterwards was not warranted or substantiated by the facts. As far Guliani “obliterating” anybody on substance is concerned, the stuttering fool couldn’t find his ass in a dark bathroom with both hands and a flashlight. No, I’m afraid Guliani’s candidacy ran head on into the Peter Principle. Truly, with the mayoralship of NYC, Rudy had reached the maximum level of his competance.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/08/08 at 2:03 pm

The Jewish nation is the not the first, but the oldest living nation under an advanced and highly developed ideological and legal framework. They will remain so forever. Do you really think that some fuzzbrained votes in the Knesset constitute Jewish law?

No they constitute Isareli law. The law that the seditionist will be tried and convicted and sentenced under. Whether you like it or not, victor. Anyway, I think this conversation has run its course. I see no reason to waste time invesigating the convoluted esoterics of a convicted terrorist, but if you like, I’ll be happy to continue the debate in August, as again I will be in the Flushing area around that time. So are you still running the whole JTF thing out of your mothers place? Or did you finally move out into another nearby garden-apartment duplex hovel?

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/08/08 at 2:30 pm

The conversation has only run its course because you fail to deal with the actual substance of any issues and analysis I supply, but cherry pick a sentence or phrase and make unsubtantiated assertions about it. You lose on points and skate on the surface. Emblematic of the way O’Bama has made his progress.

Victor is a bit over the top for me but you have to admit he is lovable. We have never met but I say hi to his brother in law from timne to time.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/08/08 at 3:29 pm

“..Victor is a bit over the top for me”

Thats okay. If you like, when we meet(I’ll be in Flushing between 8/2 and 8/9, we can meet at the bagel joint I mentioned) we’ll use one of your other pseudonyms; Ben Pesach, Ben Yosef, Ben Plonie, Rifka, etc, etc, etc

“...actual substance of any issues and analysis”

as usual, only according to your warped criteria.Yes, so-called substance for which you provide no proof whatsoever other than that of a self-serving subjective polemical nature, with no objective credible statistical data to back it up. In light of that, any serious disscussion regarding your “substance” would be academic in the extreme and therefore a complete waste of time.

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/08/08 at 3:53 pm

There is no harm in your thinking I am Victor, other than that it inadvertantly reveals your lowbrow insight into both him and me. But if you just bring your favorite Mickey Spillane novel to reread on the plane, you can just punch out anyone you think may be Victor and make it all worthwhile.

As far as my substance goes, if facts, figures, accurate quotations, official statements, logical analysis and enduring and validated ideas aren’t enough to engage your thought processes, then it is a sufficient for me to show you up just the once per discussion.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/10/08 at 8:21 pm

“...you can just punch out anyone you think may be Victor and make it all worthwhile.”

What? Are you nervous? I was a young man, impulsive and tempermental. Not the paragon of serenity and good judgement you see before you today, . Look, all I want is a bagel and a cup of coffee, so relax old dude

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/10/08 at 8:55 pm

I am content with our current level of trust and intimacy, but thanks anyway.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/10/08 at 11:13 pm

“...I am content with our current level of trust and intimacy, but thanks anyway.”

You’re most welcome. It’s undersatndable how you see yourself as being representative of high culture, what with your love of the ballet….

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/11/08 at 8:00 am

Brad Greenberg sez - “SY and LT,
You guys are definitely pushing the limits of this blog’s limited moderation. Discourse is great, but keep it civil, and avoid all the talk of the male gen***lia and where or when someone can stick it.”

———

Nice of you to weigh in Brad. Seems your clinical references fall into the same trap mine apparently did. My point was that Yam (and often Zionists) lower the level of discourse by frequently resorting to non-sequitur ad hominem attacks. My marital status, love life, or online participations may or may not be germaine to the topic at hand, but Yam is most likely a case of accusing others of his own shortcomings.

You (Brad) closed a thread elsewhere for a specific set of facts being presented. Here you pretend that both parties are equally at fault when such is not the case. Clearly, moderation is on a sliding scale depending on the team of the party guilty of the infraction.

As to Ben and AIPAC; they should register as a lobby for a foreign agent by law though they are granted special dispensation. Further evidence of the level of their influence.

Comment by LanceThruster on 6/11/08 at 9:05 am

A good article on AIPAC btw. And the winner is ... the Israel lobby By Pepe Escobar - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF03Ak01.html

Comment by LanceThruster on 6/11/08 at 10:38 am

“As to Ben and AIPAC; they should register as a lobby for a foreign agent by law though they are granted special dispensation.”

This whole point is weak First, it has been asked and answered. See my “The name, American-Israel Public Action Committee pretty well states its purpose. It is made up of Americans who contribute and participate in the political process to make the case for their concerns, which do not violate American interests” Same for me. I could add ‘law OR interests’. You neglectd to respond to that, not that I expect one.

I could ask you and your sources of inspiration to register as foreign agents as well, since you advocate against America’s interests.

As for your “If Israel wants to bully its neighbors, can’t they at least do it on their own dime?”, Israel has no neighbors, only enemies and occupiers..
- The so-called Palestinian Arabs are foreigners occupying the Israeli heartland of Judea and the ancient Jewish Gaza communities,
- transJordan is nothing but Eastern Palestine (Palestine being the Roman Hadrian’s re-naming of Jewish Israel)
- Southern Lebanon at least to the Litani river (Hezbollaland to you) is nothing but the tribal lands of Asher and Naphtali. The Arabs there are as busy oppressing the ancient Phonecians as the Jewish people.
Egypt is some kind of neighbor but far from being bullied, they have made out like bandits on the Israeli and American dimes.

By the way, ‘influence’ that has come about as a result of plain deserved success is not implied by your statement. It must be frustrating to be you, as you are working with no material.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/11/08 at 11:02 am

What makes that article good? Considering that it accepts the discredited Walt and Mearsheimer thesis at face value and ignores all of the detailed debunking it has undergone since publication?

Here, try these… good stuff!

Mearsheimer and Walt’s Anti-Jewish Screed: A Relentless Assault in Scholarly Guise
http://www.adl.org/Israel/mearsheimer_walt.asp

http://sandbox.blog-city.com/mearsheimer_walt_retreat.htm

Lots of links - WOW
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=189&x_article=1105

Stephen Walt’s War with Israel
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/03/stephen_walts_war_with_israel.html

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/11/08 at 11:36 am

“..It must be frustrating to be you, as you are working with no material”

Are youi kidding? “Frustrated” is this guy’s middle name, right after the over-compensation that passes for a handle,

Comment by Shoded Yam on 6/11/08 at 11:59 am

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