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The tragedy in Jonestown was hardly a “mass suicide”. If you simply look at the numbers, you will realize it was mass murder. Children dont commit suicide. And it can be argued that seniors who relied on the care of others (and whose capacity to act in their own best interests were far diminished) could not have whole killed themselves. These two groups alone account for nearly 50% of the population of Jonestown. Hardly a mass suicide. No, friend….......this was a case of mass murder….and had Jones lived to be indicted, he would have stood trial for 1st degree murder in almost every case.

Comment by Joe on 8/15/08 at 2:53 pm

Excellent points. But how do we fine-tune a mental state of responsibility aside from consenting adulthood? I’m not challenging you, I agree with you. The definition of a cult is an entity that discourages and prevents and forbids questioning and using one’s mind. Were the other 50% in a responsible mental state?

It’s a serious question. We are living in a time when the trend is to aborion, euthenasia, assisted suicide, and organ harvesting from terminally ill patients. The decisions made by the transplant teams and the insurance companies. In the case of China and Korea, organs are being harvested from political and ideological prisoners.

Expropriating responsibility from those are willing to assume it, and giving responsibility to those unprepared and unqualified. All those who poo-poo’ed the ‘slippery-slope’ argument have left the cab while the train careens out of control.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 8/17/08 at 11:16 am

You don’t have to ‘fine-tune’ anything.  People who tried to leave Jonestown before the massacre were shot and killed.  And during the massacre Jones told his guards to shoot anyone who refused to take the poison or tried to escape.  You can probably claim with some confidence that Jones committed suicide, but the most you can say about the rest were that they chose poison over being shot.  Any notion that this was mass suicide and not mass murder has few facts to back it up and ignores the public record.

Comment by Say "Ten" on 11/11/08 at 10:36 am

I am asking a larger question. If not Jonestown, than what about the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas rooted out by janet Reno? Was she right in using force to bust them up? Lately the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints ranch in Texas. Tony Alamo’s compound. I have no answers, just the question.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 11/12/08 at 2:11 am

Just watched some of MSNBC’s docu—on Jonestown.
Comment by Ben Plonie begs a question.

My personal belief is that, of course, God is real.
God is the personification of complete goodness.
As he created us, we should strive to that goal.
Although a goal impossible to meet by mere mortals.
Striving to achieve that goal is what will ultimatly
save mankind or the failure of it will doom it.
My Catholic upbringing taught me that.
Jewish upbrings teach the same thing.
Quibbling about who Jesus was is not my intention here.
I have the deepest RESPECT for the Jewish religion !

I also have quite a strong mind of my own and, through
the course of my life, have come to the conclusion very
early on in life that there are some people who will use
God for their own rise to “power”.
It’s an aphrodesiac to these dangerously imbalanced people.
doesn’t nessissarily need God as a usuraly tool.
Could be a myraid of other scams.

There’s no understanding the minds of these ones unless
you have the propensities of such a wicked mindset.
How a mind can work like that is beyond my ability to
understand but from a bastardized theological standpoint.

Summation… there was no preventing what happened in
Jonestown. (it’s still curious that those who manned the
automatic weapons also died there) Or… did they ?

Trust in God.

God gave us a magnificant brain that sets us apart from
all other creatures on Earth.  As with any brilliant
creation, however, it can be used for good or bad.
The propensity of man’s goodness is boundless.
But his propensity toward evil is also boundless.

The Jim Jones creation could have been a testimony
of an alternate lifestyle apart from the “grey flannel
suit” of today’s (circa 1980)  lifestyle.
Instead it was manned by a false one who claimed
to have special poweres to have a direct phone line to
God !  I beleve there’s a special place in hell for
the likes of these false god-leaders !!!

When you need to believe that you need another
HUMAN BEING as a conduit to talk to God YOU MUST
QUESTION THAT !!!!!

You can talk to God as the Pope does !!

....Also… God would NEVER tolerate the killing of
another human being in his name. Think about that…

Comment by John Hopkins on 11/16/08 at 10:56 pm

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