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“The Israeli air force is targeting and destroying ... mosque ... universities, all under the false pretext of fighting Hamas.”

When the writer refers to mosques, is he referring to the Hamas stronghold used to house weapons? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/

When the writer refers to universities, is he referring to Islamic University in Gaza City, the research and development center for Hamas’s terrorism wing? http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111723191&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Its a shame that Hamas uses Islamic schools and houses of worship as a base from which to go against Islamic teachings with.  It is a shame Hamas treats its own civilians similarly.  What the mainstream media isn’t telling us enough is that many Palestinians are starting to get it: http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_Dec2008.htm

Comment by Guy on 1/03/09 at 5:27 am

The origins of this conflict aside, when all of the public facilities which support Hamas are distroyed, there will be no infrastructure remaining in Gaza, no public facilities, and no government. Hamas will be down but not out. 1.3 million angry people, trapped by borders and politics, and living next door. Now what?

Comment by robert on 1/03/09 at 2:06 pm

Almost forty years ago in September 1970, King Hussein of Jordan found it necessary to defeat Arafat’s PLO and expel them to Lebanon. Within a week, 10-25 thousand people were killed. This became the origin of the ‘Black September’ group of Munich Olympic and hijacking fame. If Israel did not have to be careful, there would not be hundreds but 50,000 dead and Gaza would be bombed into toothpaste. As it is Israel is mass-phoning and text-messaging Gaza residents to get the hell out of the way and stay away from combatants and combat zones.

I bet you were against ‘the occupation’, check points etc. People like you don’t realize that it was those very things that prevented what is happening now. You ask, ‘what response’? Eliminating the attacks and threats of attacks. The trick will be to strike a balance between Jewish ethical values and the interference of enemies of Israel with the efficacy of the regrettably necessary mission. If you have been following the conflict you would know that Israel has suffered tragic losses for decades trying to avoid doing what they are doing today. In light of world reaction I think that policy was a mistake. The answer is that it is not in Israel’s power to prevent a situation of ‘1.3 million angry people, trapped by borders and politics, and living next door’. The best they can try to do is prevent them from harming Israel, and the easiest way to do that would be for Hamas to surrender give up their actions to destroy Israel and kill Jews.

As you say, ‘the origins of this conflict aside’, in the last couple of years Gaza could have easily become a model society and economy in light of Israel’s total withdrawal under Sharon. There was no need for one missile, the world would have showered Gaza with aid and relations, with peaceful statements and actions there would have been no blockade… Gaza can elect Hamas, and Hamas can attack Israel and Israelis, but they can’t then have peace and dignity and all that jazz. Hamas has been bragging and swaggering for years about their great bravery and fighting prowess; let them prove it without hiding under Mommy’s skirts.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 1/04/09 at 12:45 am

I have never felt any involvement in the Jewish Palestinian conflict. I also have no preference for either side, both seem to be idiotic and criminal. If the state of Israel finds the need to descend to the level of its terrorist adversary and is branded as nazi, then as the saying goes- if the shoe fits wear it.I have no idea how killing women and kids secures Israels security.

Comment by mark longdon on 1/04/09 at 8:41 pm

Ben, actually I agree with you that Hamas has no interest in peace with Israel, and will attack Israel whenever it can and with whatever means it has at its disposal. You are right that the world had high hopes for gaza and the west bank after the elections and would have rewarded them grandly if the elections had produced something resembling a peace. Hamas knows it can not defeat Israel, it must feel that the destruction of Gaza is in its interest, to cover its own failings or to create a new and radicalized pool of supporters. Israel must do what it must. World opinion will be against Israel, and Hamas will survive and now have its base in a more radicalized and violent population. I think it is wishful thinking to believe that this will cause the citizens of Gaza to turn against Hamas. This ground operation may stop the rockets but no other good will come of it. This reminds me of the old cold war MAD theory, except this is non-MAD. Each side fights but everyone knows there will be no final destruction of either party. Hamas toys with Israel while it waits for the Iranian bomb, Israel swats at hamas because it has been provoked and doesn’t know what else to do. The world watches but everyone knows no good will come of this.

Comment by robert on 1/04/09 at 11:21 pm

Long ago I came up with the following in response to a similar comment. Find the flaw if you see one.

There are three rational and ethical reasons things are done:
1) Because it is the right thing to do.
2) Regardless of 1), because there is an identifiable benefit to be gained.
3) Regardless of 1) and 2), because there is no choice.

All of these apply to Israel, none of these apply to Hamas or the PA. At least cast in this light the actions can be appropriately judged.

The only real solution to the conflict is for the Arab enemies of Israel to utterly lose hope in the prospect of destroying Israel as a Jewish state, and in its corollary hope of ruling Palestine as an Arab and/or Muslim state. Unfortunately Israel is politically incapable of doing what it takes to accomplish that. Israel’s problem is not that the response is too large and harsh, but that it is too small and mild, and lacks a deterrent effect because its stated goals have limited it in advance.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 1/05/09 at 12:55 am

mark longdon
It is not everyone who takes pride in being morally and intellectually obtunded, but as you say - ‘if the shoe fits, wear it’. Call it an alternate lifestyle choice.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 1/05/09 at 1:00 am

I just saw a blog entry noting that Hamas is willing to kill for God, but not die for God. They routinely tout and exhibit their many thousands of brave and fearless warriors against the Jews, the West and Israel, but let the fighting begin and they all turn into helpless victims.

Re Nazism, I posted this elsewhere but maybe it belongs here
“The Panestinian Authority and hamas are outgrowths of the PLO which is an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood which is an outgrowth of the Egyptian Nazi Party.
The ‘moderate’ President of the PA wrote a book called ‘The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism’, in which he ‘refutes the Nazi Holocaust as “The Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed.“‘
“The commander of Force 17, which serves as Yasir Arafat’s personal praetorian guard and which has been linked to some of the worst atrocities against Israeli Jews in the present Intifada, is Fawsi Salim el Mahdi, better known by his nome de guerre “Abu Hitler.” El Mahdi acquired the nickname after naming his two sons Eichmann and Hitler.“
A beautifully leather-bound copy of Mein Kampf is a fine gift for anyone in Saudi Arabia.
It all makes sense if you see the pattern of perfect inversion of facts and history that is the Arabs’ modus operandi.”

Comment by Ben Plonie on 1/07/09 at 2:21 am

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