Opinion

October 17, 2011

Opinion: Israel is not normal

By David Suissa

Tweet

Share

You can say a lot about Israel, but not that it’s a normal country.

Any way you look at it — its biblical roots and miraculous revival after 1,900 years; its state of virtual siege surrounded by ruthless enemies; its improbable military victories; its scientific innovations to help humanity; its economic power; its democratic character; its ingathering of immigrants from around the world; its flourishing cultural scene; its heated debates and never-ending political dramas; and, lest we forget, its ridiculous status as the United Nation’s most scrutinized and condemned country — this tiny nation has become, in a short time, one of the most unusual and extraordinary experiments in the history of nations.

Let’s look at just three recent events:

First, what kind of country would trade 1,027 convicted criminals and terrorists for one kidnapped soldier? Certainly not a normal one. 

Let’s face it — the deal for Gilad Shalit makes no sense. As a well-known Israeli writer once wrote: “Prisoner releases only embolden terrorists by giving them the feeling that even if they are caught, their punishment will be brief. Worse, by leading terrorists to think such demands are likely to be met, they encourage precisely the terrorist blackmail they are supposed to defuse.”

The writer was Benjamin Netanyahu, in his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorists.”

Of course, now that Bibi is in charge, it’s not so easy for him to ignore the wishes of a nation yearning for the freedom of one soldier, a soldier who has become, in the poignant words of Yossi Klein Halevi, “everyone’s son.”

This solidarity is not normal. Here is virtually a whole nation acting as one irrational parent (is there a price tag too high to save one’s son?), and exhibiting a love of life that transcends reason.

Many of us worry, justifiably, that the price for Shalit will be paid in more Jewish blood. I don’t pretend to have a good answer for that, but I do think Israel’s message is not just one of weakness. Israel is also saying to its enemies: If we are so crazy about saving one life, imagine how crazy we will get about saving the life of our nation next time you try to mess with us.

I can’t think of another country that would make such a crazy gesture.

My second example of Israeli abnormality is the tent city protests of last summer and the Trachtenberg Report that followed.

To understand how abnormal this is, just imagine President Barack Obama forming a commission next week to address the Occupy Wall Street movement; the leader of that commission meeting nightly with protesters to get their input and ideas, while launching an open-source Web site to solicit ideas from concerned citizens; the commission drafting a comprehensive report to the president with detailed recommendations on everything from cost of living and education to tax reform and affordable housing; and the plan being approved by Congress — all in less than eight weeks!

Like I said, not normal, but it’s exactly what happened in Israel.

My third example of Israeli abnormality is the world’s hysterical reaction last month to Israel’s desire to build apartments in a Jewish neighborhood in Jerusalem. Specifically, many world leaders went nuts and called it “provocative” and “detrimental to peace” when Israel’s Interior Ministry gave preliminary approval for the building of 1,100 residential units in the Southeast Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo.

Never mind, of course, that it is widely accepted that Gilo is one of those Jewish neighborhoods that would stay in Israeli hands in any final peace plan, or that Israel has made generous offers for peace in the past that have been rejected.

And never mind that the genocidal Hamas terror regime in Gaza, which yearns for Israel’s destruction, as well as the continued Palestinian promotion of Jew-hatred and glorification of terrorism, make other so-called “obstacles to peace” a farce.

Never mind all that. As thousands of protesters were being murdered in Syria, as Christian Copts were being mowed down in Egypt and Kurds were being slaughtered in Turkey, much of the Western world decided to condemn a preliminary building permit for Jewish housing in Jerusalem.

This might not surprise you, given the world’s impeccable record of singling out the Jewish state for disproportionate abuse. But, whatever side of the ideological fence you sit on, don’t tell me it’s normal.

In many ways, this abnormal hostility has hardened Israel to the outside world, while paradoxically increasing its desire to succeed and be accepted. As a result, Israel has often appeared conflicted and emotionally unpredictable.

The one constant has been the nation’s intense love of life. The world will witness an outpouring of this love this week when millions of Israelis welcome home their “son” Gilad Shalit.

I wonder what will go through the minds of outsiders when they view this spectacle: “Look at these foolish Israelis, releasing a thousand terrorists just for one human life. Crazy country.”

Yes, a crazy and flawed country, but also a courageous and incredibly resourceful country that is madly in love with life — and is definitely not normal.

A version of this article appeared in print.

---

Post your comment below!

Click here to return to the homepage.

COMMENTS

We welcome your feedback. Comments may not exceed 700 characters.

Privacy Policy

Your information will not be shared or sold without your consent. Get all the details.

Terms of Service

JewishJournal.com has rules for its commenting community.Get all the details.

US does not do deals with terorits

Comment by Gus on 10/17/11 at 7:28 pm

I have grandchilren and my son and daughter who who have made Aliya.  This is the abnormality they have chosen as their home.  I have not chosen the abnormality and I really believe that the decision borders on insanity.  You are right, Israel is clearly not normal.

Comment by Aaron on 10/17/11 at 7:38 pm

It’s time Israel imposes a death penalty for terrorists, instead of giving them multiple life sentences and releasing them after only a few years in situations like this.  If you say that Israel doesn’t believe in the death penalty, I’ll remind you that they executed Adolph Eichman.  If you respond that he was an exception, I’ll ask how many Jewish lives a murderer has to extinguish before one can call him a REALLY bad guy?

Comment by Daniel Iltis on 10/17/11 at 8:21 pm

A nation under siege has to act differently to other countries that don’t have such a persistant threat to its existance hovering over it.  Personally, I think Israel has acted more restrainedly than what would be realistically expected by other states.  What makes it so wrong though is that Israel’s enemies equate restraint to weakness and as a result, it simply embolds them.
You must never forget that Israel’s enemies sometimes change their ways, but not their goal.  Don’t let ‘restrained behavior’ further their goal…

Comment by Dean Thomas on 10/17/11 at 8:29 pm

David,
Kol Hakavod for your strong, truthful, insightful, and incisive article.  You’ll remember that I once told you that you were a bit soft on Jeremy Ben-Ami, knowing how much you dosagree with him and his ilk. I apologize to you about that, because you’re critique-style is totally validated by your prophetic role in the JJ as one whose words make the “other side” appear irrelevant, which they are.
Thanks much, Irv

Comment by Irving S. White on 10/17/11 at 10:41 pm

I only disagree with your third example David, the one where the world condemned Israel for building 1100 apartments in a Jewish Jerusalem neighborhood while ignoring murderous events in Syria, Egypt and Turkey. What you have observed is quite normal; it’s called virulent anti-semitism which is alive and well all over the world!

Max Ludvigson

Comment by Diplomat on 10/17/11 at 11:08 pm

First of all, far more attention has been paid to the atrocities committed by the Syrian government than the new housing planned for Gilo so that argument won’t wash.

When Israel was established as a predominantly European Jewish state in the the Arab Middle East it was going in the opposite direction in a world moving to decolonize and there would have been opposition from its neighbors regardless of its religion or ethnic background.

Supporters of Israel are the only ones, apparently, who fail to understand that the wholesale dispossession of a people from their homeland as was the case with the Palestinian Arabs is not something that can be swept under a rug.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/18/11 at 12:48 am

Arafat and the PLO were in exile when the Munich massacre happened

Comment by gus on 10/18/11 at 12:49 am

I live in Israel and im proud to be Israeli & Jew. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy2qjrnds6g

אין לי ארץ אחרת
גם אם אדמתי בוערת
רק מילה בעברית חודרת
אל עורקי אל נשמתי
בגוף כואב
בלב רעב
כאן הוא ביתי.

לא אשתוק כי ארצי
שינתה את פניה
לא אוותר לה אזכיר לה
ואשיר כאן באוזניה
עד שתפקח את עיניה.

Comment by Am Israel Hai Ve Kayam on 10/18/11 at 1:08 am

Thank you David Suissa for a great story. It makes me proud to be a member of the tribe and a lover of Israel…the “abnormal Country”!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/18/11 at 1:13 am

...and here we have Hollywood Jerk again…every chance he gets to stick it to
Israel…he’s there!!!
“wholesale dispossession of a people from their homeland “??????...my butt!!!
Prove it Jeffrey…you seem to reconstruct history at will just to serve your sorry   malignant stupidity!!!

Comment by Goldstein on 10/18/11 at 1:27 am

Prove it, Goldstein? First, it seems I have to convince you that the earth is round.  As to “stick[ing] it to Israel,” someone’s got to do it since you people are so full of yourselves that without a little deflating you’re likely to explode and I don’t want to me the one to have to clean up the mess.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/18/11 at 10:50 am

HollyJerk and supporters of Palestinians are the only ones, apparently, who fail to understand that the wholesale dispossession of Jewish people from their homeland is not something that can be swept under a rug.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 11:52 am

Holly Jerk, you are so full of yourselves that you’re likely to explode and I don’t want to me the one to have to clean up your mess.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 11:56 am

Jeff ya khabibi, stop pusing pencils and get some actions. Come join us in Hamas, and you will get to really stick it to the Jews. We have an explosive belt ready for you.

Comment by Akhmad on 10/18/11 at 12:01 pm

holy jeff…go back to JewWatch where you belong!!!...why are you so infatuated with the Jews…???  you’re TRAIF to us!!!!

TRAIF: Noun
Traditionally, anything that is considered vile and non-kosher in the hebrew faith.
Contemporarily, something dirty and nasty you don’t want around, much less want to consume or touch.

Comment by Stornin'Norm on 10/18/11 at 12:08 pm

Jeff ya Einee, can I borrow your brown shirt? Things are tough in Gaza, but with Allah’s blessing and with the help of Yahuds like you we will overcome. Allah Karim!

Comment by Muhammad on 10/18/11 at 1:13 pm

On Oct 1, 2000, an Israeli Border Police guarding Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus came under a Palestinian fierce gun fire. In the fire exchange, Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, age 19, of the Druze village Beit Jann, wounded in the neck by a bullet at 3 P.M.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 1:14 pm

In an attempt to evacuate him from the compound, OC Central Command Maj.-Gen. Yitzhak Eitan pleaded with senior Palestinian security officials to halt the gunfire. Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz arrived at a field headquarters set up nearby to supervise the operation, and the IDF warned it would enter the city if the Palestinians failed to comply. Despite the personal pleas to Israeli PM Ehud Barak, he did not authorize a forceful evacuation of the wounded soldier by the IDF.

Comment by avi on 10/18/11 at 1:15 pm

Soldier Madhat Yousef was allowed to bleed to death after Palestinian security forces prevented his medical evacuation for over five hours, as the Israeli government negotiated with the PA to permit forces to extricate the army force and the gravely wounded soldier.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 1:16 pm

Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf was buried in the military section of the cemetery in the Druze village of Beit Jann. The IDF abandoned the holy site on October 7, 2000, in the beginning of the Oslo War,after the death of Cpl Yusuf. Knesset Member Arieh Eldad called for a state commission of inquiry to be launched into the incident. “Apparently, the ten years that have passed were not enough for the decision makers to repent for their sin,” said MK Eldad.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 1:18 pm

Hmmmm. It looks like all of the screws have come loose. Stormin Norman, I’ve been a Jew probably longer than anyone on this loose thread but, to put it mildly, I don’t exactly appreciate what has been done in my name. If I knew where the tree my grandfather had planted for me in Israel I would have dug it up when I was last there. Probably it was just a shuck by the JNF to pocket some more spare change.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/18/11 at 2:06 pm

Israel will prevail despite its enemies best efforts.

Comment by Dean Thomas on 10/18/11 at 2:22 pm

Holly Jerk, relax. These talkbacks got to your head. No one here even cares to know your name, much less to do anything in your name. Your poor grandpa RIP must be very proud of his seed, the hero behind the computer. As for the tree in Israel, not to worry, in all likelihood your Pales friends burned it a long time ago. They did it in your name of course. I may send them a thank you letter.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 3:27 pm

Thank you Mr Suissa for your insights into “normal” and “abnormal”. Freeing a kidnapped captive is a great deal, no doubt about it. But here’s the question. Judaism proposes to be “a light for mankind”, a teaching of wisdom for life. If the State of Israel is indeed representative of Judaism and its mission, can you please explain how it hasn’t found a way to make peace with its neighbors in over 60 years? Is that what you propose as an example of wisdom? Are Jews about to trade Einstein, Freud, Bergson, Levi-Strauss and countless other geniuses as examples for army generals and war heroism? to be continued…

Comment by Jake on 10/18/11 at 3:47 pm

King Solomon was according to the Bible, the wisest man who ever lived, the proof of his wisdom being that he always found the way to make peace. In his Book of Proverbs he says: “When Hashem agrees with the path of a person, He pacifies his enemies with him.” Striving to be the “abnormal” one instead of the wise one, can be very costly. (continued)

Comment by Jake on 10/18/11 at 3:50 pm

It’s time the Israeli Govt stopped playing the spoiled child of the world, and exhibiting its utter disregard for the gaze of the outside world. Endangering Jews everywhere, putting civilian’s lives -both Israeli and Palestinian- in harm’s way, is not wise. Especially if it’s done to justify motto’s like “we’re the abnormal ones”. Yes, releasing one kidnapped soldier is commendable. But avoiding the real issue, of concrete peace to prevent more absurd bloodshed, and prolonging the conflict any longer is plain unwise and totally “normal” in terms of stupendous ignorance. (cont. and end)

Comment by Jake on 10/18/11 at 3:54 pm

If Jews have something to defend, it’s the peaceful wisdom of Judaism which is filled with ways to achieve concrete peace. When the Israeli Govt’s actions contradict this wisdom, being the “abnormal” ones is no consolation. As Jews, we are here on a serious mission to help improve humanity, not to mock or inflame it by useless narcissism.

Comment by Jake on 10/18/11 at 3:58 pm

Jeff by your own words you’re a self hating Jew..for how long.??? ....how olde are you..????

Nothing has been done in your name…Hollywood Jeff hasn’t been mentioned in the news recently.

Don’t worry about your GrandPaPa’s Tree…RE: the Buddy Hackett story when he inquired about the trees he planted ...he received a reply in Hebrew…he took it to a Rabbi he knew for translation…” Dear Mr. Hackett…Thanks for the inquiry…your F——-g tree is DEAD!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/18/11 at 4:17 pm

Holy Woody..
RE: ,” someone’s got to do it since you people are so full of yourselves that without a little deflating you’re likely to explode and I don’t want to me the one to have to clean up the mess.”

Since you refer to us as “you People” I take it you’re not one of us as you claim…if you are…I accept your resignation from the tribe..you’re now free to sign off and leave us to our kvetching without you!!!!

Comment by Goldstein on 10/18/11 at 4:32 pm

Heeey Jakey:
RE:  “As Jews, we are here on a serious mission to help improve humanity, not to mock or inflame it by useless narcissism.”
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!! The Mission of the Israeli’s is to protect their people and hopefully to promulgate that little glorious place as perhaps….the future home of all the Jews…when they’re ready for it!!!

Comment by NateDuhGrate! on 10/18/11 at 4:54 pm

This is the lie about Isreal being a home of basically Eurpean Jews: From 1948 until the early 1970s, 800,000-1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951; and 600,000 by 1972.  Lebanon was the only Arab country to see an increase in its Jewish population after 1948, which was due to an influx of refugees from other Arab countries.However, by the 1970s the Jewish community of Lebanon too dwindled due to hostilities of the Lebanese Civil War. By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel’s population.

Comment by Aaron on 10/18/11 at 5:08 pm

Dear Jake: “If Jews have something to defend, it’s the peaceful wisdom of Judaism which is filled with ways to achieve concrete peace. When the Israeli Govt’s actions contradict this wisdom, being the “abnormal” ones is no consolation.” What the hell are you talking about? Israel withdrew from the Sinai, from Lebanon, from Gaza, recognized the rights of Palestinians for self determination, made peace with Egypt, with Jordan…

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 6:13 pm

Dear Jake: Did you listen to Abbas’ speech at the UN? It is the Palestinians who deny Jewish rights for self determination. It is them who will not settle the refugee issues. At least HollyJerk clearly shares the same ideas with the Palestinians, but you are a confused Jew, my friend.

Comment by Avi on 10/18/11 at 6:18 pm

Snortin’ Norton. I said “you people” because growing up in a family that represented every aspect of Judaism, from Orthodox to atheist, I never encountered any who think like you do (using the word, “think” in its most liberal manner). In other words, you are the ones that have swallowed the disease of nationalism, as have the leaders of Israel to such an abnormal degree that you present a threat to the future of the planet, a position that to your twisted minds may seem outrageous, but will become a widely shared opinion if, for example, Israel launches a war on Iran. BTW, I’ve never been a self hater. I kind of like how I turned out, especially when compared with the lot of you.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/18/11 at 6:38 pm

HJ:  Obviously they only represented a small narrow minded aspect…because 98% of the people here disagree with you…you being basically an Israel Hater!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/18/11 at 7:00 pm

Norm, you summed it up very nicely. Thank you.

Comment by Mini on 10/18/11 at 7:54 pm

Sorry Normie and Mini, any outside observe to these exchanges would suggest that all the hate originates from you and your ilk, Normie. What I mean by ilk is that mutant strain of Jews who have been turned by Zionism into something else, quite ugly, by the way, who would have been unrecognizable a half century ago.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/18/11 at 10:58 pm

Holy woodless:
To Quote Goldstein…“Since you refer to us as “you People” and “mutant strain of Jews who have been turned by Zionism into something else, quite ugly”
I take it you’re not one of us as you claim…if you are…I accept your resignation from the tribe..you’re now free to sign off and leave us to our kvetching without you!!!!”

I take it most of the people on this thread agree…sooo take your bile elsewhere…
Goodnight JeffBoy!!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/19/11 at 12:27 am

Snortin’ Shmorton, Believe me, the last thing I would want to be would be included in any group that boasted of you and the rest of the cretins on this list as members. I consider myself to be first a human being and I will leave the tribal crap to those who feel lost without it. You and the rest of your ilk are poster boys and in the case of Minnie Mouse, poster girls for the true anti-semites. If average non-Jewish Americans would read the racist, Jewish supremacist drivel you folks put out in the JJ’s comment section, they would be looking for the nearest Father Coughlin or Gerald L K Smith for guidance.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/19/11 at 11:46 pm

HJ, you are threatening to leave? Don’t hesitate. Just do it!

Comment by Avi on 10/20/11 at 12:08 am

HJ, I really can’t stand you, but at least I had some respect for your warped intelligence. I must say after reading your stuff here, you are losing it, man. Your recent responses are pathetic and obnoxious. I may even stop reading you. Don’t blame me, I am warning you…

Comment by Avi on 10/20/11 at 12:37 am

Only a FOOL would call himself Hollywood(Jeff) anything since only foolishness comes from Hollywierd. Hey Hollywood, what do you think of the foolish America hatin low-life Bitch who called the Pope a Nazi.  Was she really refering to you?

Comment by Rich on 10/20/11 at 7:21 pm

Hey…Hey…Hey….Rich….
I’m not a lover or even a liker of HJ….
but who are ...you ....calling Hollywood (Los Angeles, 10 Million Good People)...Hollyweird????
And you call Susan S. a Bitch & an America Hater…because she stated the fact: That As a member of the hitler youth and the german army between 1938 & 1945…ANYONE including the pope WAS a nazi!!!!
I didn’t say IS I said WAS!!!
SO What’s Your Problem???

Comment by NATE on 10/20/11 at 7:34 pm

NATE: Using this logic, by your standards George Soros was a Nazi too. As least be consistent.

Comment by Truth Teller on 10/20/11 at 7:50 pm

YES…truth teller..If George Soros was a member of the hitler youth and/or the german army I would call him a nazi…UNLESS he was a Jew in Hiding ( yes a few were actually in the army and youth) to save his life.

HOWEVER Soros was a child working with the Jewish Council ...as a facilitator..not a member of the german forces.  He wasn’t guilty of anything I can see and too young in any case!!

Comment by NATE on 10/20/11 at 8:14 pm

George Soros was a young teenager during the Nazi occupation and in no position of responsibility. The same could not be said for Rezo Kastner who, as head of the Zionist organization in Budapest, the Vaad, collaborated with the Nazis and with Eichmann himself, testified on behalf of SS General Kurt Becher at Nuremberg and managed to save his and his family’s tuchuses and those of 1200 other Jewish “notables” while the less fortunate were sent on a train to Auschwitz.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/20/11 at 11:10 pm

One of Rezo’s jobs was to distribute the post cards that the Jewish prisoners were forced by the Nazis to send to their friends in Hungary telling them all was well. Had the Jews of Hungary known the truth, kept from them by Kastner, they would have fled across the border as the Germans were fleeing the advancing Russian troops. Ben Hecht described his perfidy in fine detail in his book aptly titled, “Perfidy.”

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/20/11 at 11:11 pm

Actually, what I wanted to say before I saw the Soros’s comments was to point you all to this very uplifting article from the Forward: Settler Turned Peace Activist Now Occupies Wall Street. <www.forward.com/articles/144620>

It seems there is hope that all of you may one day see the light (instead of spreading the blight).

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/20/11 at 11:16 pm

Nate: Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, was born on 16 April 1927, hence he was 9 years old when the Nazis took over. Furthermore, the Nazis were not so kind to Catholics. Truth is, none of them was a Nazi, but by accusing the Pope of being a Nazi by association while defending a Jews who was actively engaged in persecuting Jews only shows your bigotry and hatred.

Comment by Truth Teller on 10/20/11 at 11:33 pm

HollyJerk, no need to tell me what I already know. Save your efforts, Soros miserable life was my point. Your reflexive foaming of the mouth whenever a name of a Jew hater comes up is termed “psychic secretion”. Actually Pavlov’s dogs smelled better than you. I loathe you.

Comment by Truth Teller on 10/20/11 at 11:43 pm

NATE: What you have just demonstrated is that bigotry is an equal opportunity disease. Go get some help, you must be a very unhappy man, my friend.

Comment by Truth Teller on 10/20/11 at 11:46 pm

Truth Teller…You’re a PUTZ!!!

It’s not bigotry to tell the truth….and ask my wife & grandkids how unhappy I am!!!

In all my life I’ve never run into such a bunch of Famisched Alter Cockers !!!

You take a simple statement of truth and twist it every which way but up!!!

I SAID: I personally consider the pope to have been a nazi from 1936 to 1945 during the time he was in the hitler youth & as a german soldier….Because THAT’S WHAT YOU CALL SOMEONE who was a hitler youth & a german soldier during those years!!!

I DID’NT SAY HE WAS A NAZI NOW!  I think he’s probably a good guy NOW.

ALSO I SAID, SOROS, in my opinion was NOT a nazi!!!

WHAT’s SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT???

Comment by NATE on 10/21/11 at 1:12 am

Truth Teller, you are indeed one fart smeller and being loathed by the likes you I;ll wear as a badge of honor. Perhaps you should consider wearing that medal issued by the Nazis after a visit by a German official during the functioning of the Haavara [Transfer] Agreement between the Nazis and the Zionists in Palestine in the 30s that had a swastika on one side and the Magen David on the other.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/21/11 at 10:53 pm

Jeff any problem with Haavara Agreement? That what saved my parents families which is why I’m here today. Wish it was more successful.

Comment by Michal on 10/21/11 at 11:06 pm

Michal, that’s the point. HollyJerk prefers dead Jews.

Comment by Avi on 10/21/11 at 11:08 pm

The Hell with the nazis and their medals…..at the very least the Haavara Agreement helped save Jewish lives!! How can anyone possibly complain about that ???....unless you’re a crazy ass kraut lover!!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/22/11 at 1:29 pm

I don’t begrudge any of the German Jews who were able to escape from Nazi Germany however they could but that does not change the facts that the mainstream Zionist movement sabotaged efforts by other countries to allow Jews to go any place but Palestine. This is why they boycotted an international meeting at Evian in France to discuss ways of saving Jewish lives.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 12:33 am

“If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter—because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People.” – Ben-Gurion (1938).”

  (As quoted in Benny Morris’ Righteous Victims, p. 162)

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 12:35 am

Maybe to wake you up I need to pull some choice quotes from the trial of the 86 year old survivor from Hungary who the Mapai government sued when he accused Katzner of collaborating with the Nazis which included Katzner testifying for SS General Bucher at Nuremberg. That trial clearly showed the contempt with which the Zionists viewed those Jews who perished, in which they were referred to by the attorney general of Israel as so much “dust.”

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 12:41 am

HOLY Would???  Check your facts about the Zionists…ant try to use other than Racist Anti-Semitic Web Sites!!!

“During the nine-day meeting, delegate after delegate rose to express sympathy for the refugees. But most countries, including the United States and Britain, offered excuses for not letting in more refugees. Only one country, the Dominican Republic, offered to grant large numbers of Jews sanctuary.”  Sooo where were the Jews to go???

Comment by Goldstein on 10/24/11 at 5:16 pm

Do you consider Ben Hecht’s “Perfidy,” to be antisemitic? Perhaps, you should read since it is once again available online after being suppressed for years by the mainstream Zionists (and when you read it, you’ll understand why).

I don’t read or need what you consider antisemitic websites (and I’d probably agree with you on most of them) because I have all the documentation in my library along with Yivo’s Black Book, Edwin Black’s “The Transfer Agreement,” and Raoul Hilberg’s “The Destruction of the European Jews.”

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 6:05 pm

What puzzled me as a teen, growing up in WW2 was that at the meeting of Zionist leaders at the Biltmore in 1942 to plan the Jewish state there was little concern almost the Holocaust which was reflected in the Palestine Post which ran articles about it on the inside pages.

What puzzled me, recalling this when I read Perfidy, was that while American Jews had the power to bend Truman to support the recognition of Israel against the wishes of Sec of State Marshall and twist the arms of other countries to do the same they lacked the power to get America to open its doors to Jewish refugees from Central Europe. Or was it something else?

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 6:33 pm

Indeed, it was something else. Let’s call it for what it was, “Jewish self-hatred.” By the late 30s, most of the German Jews, the top of the Jewish totem pole, had left and what remained were Jews from the East European shtetl with their ghetto ways who the now successful Americanized Jews were not anxious to see on our shores as they might remind the goyim of their own origins. Thus, the energy that was put into statehood was lacking when it came to saving Jewish lives. And that is why I will never forgive them.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/24/11 at 6:43 pm

Hollywood Jeff is correct about the more Americanized Jews shunning the newer immigrants . I well remember when more Americanized Jews were embarrassed by my father-in-law, an immigrant from Poland, who never lost his accent.

Comment by Janice on 10/24/11 at 7:07 pm

HollyJerk, I presume you consider yourself an American. Have you forgiven America for all it past misdeeds or do you reserve your hate only for Jews? Just answer Yes or No. I have no interest in your megila.

Comment by The Golem on 10/24/11 at 8:03 pm

Holy Nut Man…
This is in response to your use of the “dubious” Ben Hecht as your source for damning Zionism:

Ben Hecht’s Perfidy: An Analysis of His Rewriting of History
The Big Lie
The fundamental Big Lie of Hecht is so horrendous that its invention by a sane mind is almost unconceivable: that the late Dr. Chaim Weizmann and other “members of the ruling clique” were not interested in the rescue of Jews, nay, that they were in tacit agreement with the Nazis, since they feared that mass immigration would destroy their “British-protected” rule.

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/24/11 at 8:40 pm

CONT:
And this is charged after that same “ruling clique” led and won Israel’s War of Independence and, on the very first day of statehood, opened the gates of the country to mass immigration for more than one million Jews who have come since then.
The falsification of history by Hecht extends all along the line: from the general events of those years, through the history of the Holocaust and the rescue efforts of the Yishuv, to the Kastner-Gruenwald trial.

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/24/11 at 8:46 pm

To the Golem - I find it sad that when you see the truth you feel impelled to call it “anti-Semitism.” My father-in-law was a lovely person and it hurt me when more Americanized Jews acted as if he were different from them. To me, those more Americanized Jews were anti-Semites if my father-in-law’s Polish/Yiddish accent bothered them.
Maybe you are also an anti-Semite. I wouldn’t be in the least surprised.

Comment by Janice on 10/24/11 at 9:14 pm

JESUS ...GOLEM…Give it a break!!!
She’s giving ONE instance of what she feels is anti-Semitism by Jews against Jews…I prefer to call it self hatred…but what the hell!!! Get off your high camel!!! A lot of Jews deserve disdain!!!

Comment by BaBa Rose on 10/24/11 at 11:13 pm

Most of Hecht’s book is based on the transcripts of the Katzner-Gruenwald trial, get that Stupid Norman, T-R-A-N-S-C-R-I-P-T-S, with Hecht’s commentary. By 1942, DBG was running the show, not Weizmann, and I notice you and your hate-engorged soulmates have not responded to my comments about the lack of concern for the Holocaust at the Biltmore meeting. Re Hecht, I guess I’ll have to post that quote from the first attorney general of Israel who was defending the rat, Katzner, who described those who perished as “dust,” a term I guess he reserved for non-Zionist Jews who were in the overwhelming majority and who the Zionists in Germany campaigned against.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 12:08 am

My error, a technical one. The Israeli AG, who I believe was named Cohen was not “defending” Katzner, he had taken over the prosecution of the 86 year old Gruenwald when the first prosecutor for the Ben Gurion regime was not getting anywhere and the government, which brought the case against Gruenwald, was clearly losing. In the end, Gruenwald was cleared by the judge of the charge that he had falsely accused Katzner of collaboration. In other words, the judge agreed that Katzner was a collaborator. No doubt you belong in his company. You would have wanted Gruenwald found guilty. Right, Smarmy Norman?

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 12:15 am

BTW, all you soul mates of Katzner, the mother of Hanna Senesh who parachuted into Hungary in an attempt to rescue her fellow Hungarian Jews and was advised by Katzner to turn herself into the Nazis which she did and was executed, testified against that SOB at his trial. Did Hecht make that up, Capo Norm?

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 12:21 am

It has been a while since I read Perfidy and may have made a mistake—have to go back and make sure—but Wikileaks says that she was captured by the Nazis and that Kaztner advised her mother not to get a lawyer for her when her mother was going to do that. Kaztner was, at the time, buddy-buddy with Eichman and SS General Kurt Bucher and might have pulled some strings for her. He didn’t. He survived as did HIS family members. 700,000 didn’t. Just a coincidence I guess, but it proved collaboration paid off until he was assassinated just after the Ben Gurion government removed his police protection. Too bad you weren’t there to guard him, Capo Norm.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 12:32 am

Sooo Jeffrey from Hollywood…Everyone who disagrees with you is a capo, nazi, smarmy
Etc.  Which leaves you…Exactly what are you Jeffrey from Hollywood…????...outside of an unhappy old man who hates his own people???

PS: The Katzner/Gruenwald Trial was never completely resolvedly the Israeli’s and Hecht’s version was just that….HIS OPINION!!!...a person not there & not involved!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/25/11 at 12:47 am

Careful Golem…never mess with your BaBa!

(Sorry about the camel shot!!!)

Comment by BaBa Rose on 10/25/11 at 1:01 am

Your in over your head Capo Norm and it wasn’t me that started the name calling. That’s what those on this list who have no arguments do when I produce “facts on the ground” as old MB use to brag about. The trial of Gruenwald soon turned into a trial of Kastner (Wikipedia calls it the “Kastner trial” and he was acquitted by the judge which implied that the accusations against Kastner were true. The verdict was overturned by a judicial panel in words that could only be described as Kafkaesque…just after Kastner was assassinated which, if nothing else, was very convenient for the Mapai. Dead men tell no tails.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 1:42 pm

BTW, Norm, have you read Ben Hecht’s Perfidy? Be careful how you answer because I may test you. Has anyone on this thread but me read it? Inquiring minds want to know.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 1:45 pm

You’re just “Olde Hollywood.”..you decide on conclusions and then create bogus facts to support your crazy conclusions!!!

Comment by Goldstein on 10/25/11 at 3:22 pm

Such as, Goldstein? Have you read “Perfidy?” or Hecht’s “A Guide to the Perplexed?”

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/25/11 at 6:12 pm

JEFF:
You drive everyone nuts…NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN YOUR READING SUGGESTIONS ....Why would anyone want to read “Perfidy?” or Hecht’s “A Guide to the Perplexed?”????
Have you read Mickey Mouse, Batman, The Fantastic 5???

Comment by Ari Ben on 10/25/11 at 7:10 pm

Of course, no capo would want to read the truth about the Zionist mainstream of Europe’s Jews as described by Hecht who was ostracized for his support of the Irgun, the ONLY Zionist organization which tried to get them to safety. That’s why the book was impossible to buy because the bastards, because an earlier forerunner of yourself, didn’t want Jews and other Americans to know the truth about their betrayal of those they considered “dust” and so they bought them up and took them out of circulation.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/26/11 at 7:18 pm

On second thought, Ari, you ignorant cretin, do you even know who Ben Hecht was? Didn’t think so. Your stupidity, if it was demonstrated elsewhere, would be a shanda, but here it is just the Norm, like your Stormin’ friend who wisely has retired from the field.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/26/11 at 8:20 pm

anyone within a mile of this blog can hear old Hollywood Jeffrey bleeding for his cause…unfortunately his is always one sided…

To create the state of Israel…it took all of them….The mainstream Zionists and the “sub-rosa” Zionists.. the Ben Gurion’s & Weizmann’s and the Begun’s, Bergson’s & Ben Hecht’s…The Palmach & the Haganah….and also the Irgun and the Stern Gang…It took them all…and unfortunately since Jews can never get anything done without a fight…It took them all fighting to get the job of FIGHTING for a STATE done!!!

THEY WERE ALL HERO’S of ISRAEL!!!

Comment by Stormin'Norm on 10/26/11 at 8:37 pm

THIS IS WHO JEFF SEES IN THE MIRROR EACH MORNING…

CRETIN….A Person that is: brainless, stupid, child-like, and full of pointless information that makes no sense and appeals only to other cretins. They can be found in abundance in every single populated internet forum, where they race to post as many mind-numbing messages as possible in a single session. In addition, they seemingly interbreed with other cretins, ensuring that their cretinous genes continue long after they end up dead meaning the Internet will never be rid of their kind. More’s the pity.

Comment by Ari Ben on 10/26/11 at 9:29 pm

Ari Ben and Stormin’: I wonder if the Jerk would stop for a minute to tall you about the peaceful history of Denmark, Sweden,the UK, France, Belgium, Italy, Turkey, Macedonia,Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Spain, Russia, Georgia, the USA, Japan, China, Vietnam, Iran… Damn. I am running out of space here. Has the Jerk told you anything about them? Oh. He said loves the peacenicks Arabs.

Comment by Mini on 10/26/11 at 10:28 pm

Mini, Kol Hakavod. Thank you. You can rest your case.

Comment by Avi on 10/26/11 at 10:30 pm

Stromin’, actually no. The only hero of the Jews is a Jerk who hides behind a pseudo name and fights behind the computer. So don’t get excited Norm, rabid dogs like Jerk and Janice will continue barking and look where Israel is today, Baruch Hashem…

Comment by Mini on 10/26/11 at 11:57 pm

Changing the subject is always convenient when you have no answers to uncomfortable facts. There is ample evidence that building a Jewish state was more important for the mainstream Zionists than saving the Jews of Europe. You all apparently agree with that position. I don’t happen to and that’s what makes us different.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 10/27/11 at 2:42 pm

you’re definitely different…

Comment by BaBa Rose on 10/27/11 at 2:48 pm

Post a Comment

Name:
Email:

Type the word you see below:

Comment:

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?