Opinion

August 16, 2011

CON: Glenn Beck Rally in Jerusalem: Bad for the Jews!

By Rabbi Joshua Levine Grater

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Find the pro column here: Glenn Beck’s unwavering support for Israel

Glenn Beck is a fundamentalist-extremist. His upcoming rally, on Aug. 24, “Restoring Courage” in Jerusalem is nothing more than a media-driven, money-making, self-serving, end-of-times messianic-lunacy circus show, and that is the very last thing Jerusalem and Israel need at this moment.  I wish that I could dismiss Beck’s rally as not worthy of comment, but with so many Americans — including, to my sheer amazement, some Jews — following Beck’s entertainment programs, coupled with his multimillion-dollar wealth, unfortunately Beck has to be taken seriously.  Not as a thinker, but as a political phenomenon whose words influence others and thus have real consequences.

Jews have seen our share of false messiahs, including Shabbtai Tzvi and Meir Kahane, and we know how damaging their message can be.  A former DJ and comic, Beck reinvented himself as a self-proclaimed prophet of God, which is the first sign that he is a fraud. (In the last year, though, Beck has lost one-third of his audience, which shows that false prophets aren’t always profitable.)  But, when he decides to bring his circus to the streets of Jerusalem, then the Jewish community must call him out and expose his long track record of lies, fear-mongering and anti-Semitic rants. 

Why is anyone in the Jewish community embracing him?  Of the nine people on Beck’s list of “the most dangerous people in the world,” eight are Jews.  This is a friend of the Jewish people?  He has compared Reform Judaism to radical Islam, mistakenly calling both political, not faith, movements.  This is a friend of the Jewish people?  His mentor and guru, Mormon extremist W. Cleon Skousen, is a well-known racist and anti-Semite whose book, “The Five Thousand Year Leap,” is too extremist even for the conservatives.  This is a friend to the Jewish people?  And Beck himself was called out for his anti-Semitic attacks on George Soros, who might not be everyone’s favorite Jew, but Beck claimed, falsely and slanderously, that Soros helped to kill Jews in the Holocaust.  More than 400 rabbis, myself included, joined with many mainstream Jewish organizations to expose Beck’s venomous lies.  Glenn Beck is no friend of the Jewish people.  In fact, he is one of the most dangerous, albeit well-disguised, enemies of the Jewish people.

Now he is going to Jerusalem, a tender yet volatile city, which sits at the center of the conflict in the Middle East. Beck will “stand with Israel” by preaching that the two-state solution will be the death of Israel.  Again, if he wasn’t so well financed, I would just laugh and ignore this nonsense.  Beck is good at reading cue cards, but it is clear from watching his show that he has absolutely no knowledge of the history of the Middle East conflict, the realpolitik that is involved in negotiations or the serious reality that Israel is facing as it fights for its future and survival.  And, because he lives in the fantasy world of false messianic fervor, he doesn’t care about what is really happening. Jerusalem is a tinderbox, and pulling stunts like this can only lead to an explosion.

The two-state solution, and President Barack Obama’s attempts to revitalize negotiations based on the same set of principles all presidents, prime ministers and negotiators in the Middle East have used for decades, is the only hope for Israel’s survival as a Jewish and democratic state. But Beck doesn’t care about that because the messianic vision of the “end times” actually involves the destruction of Jerusalem, which paves the way for the Second Coming. This is why Beck and the whole Christians United for Israel movement is actually a false front of “support for Israel,” which, sadly, many Jews have bought into as true support.  In the interfaith work that I do, though, Muslim, Jewish and, especially, Christian colleagues of mine all agree: Glenn Beck is bringing nothing positive with regard to the healing of our fractured world. 

In fact, Beck’s rally is actually a dream come true for Hamas and Hezbollah. They are, unwittingly perhaps, Beck’s radical, religious fundamentalist partners in crime who also crave the war to end the world. Lovers of Israel, friends of the Jewish people and seekers of peace should do some praying of our own: Pray that Israel doesn’t grant Beck a permit for his circus show. This could be one of the smartest things the Netanyahu government ever does.

Rabbi Joshua Levine Grater is the spiritual leader of the Pasadena Jewish Temple and Center.  He currently also serves as chair of AFPI, Abrahamic Faiths Peacemaking Initiative.

A version of this article appeared in print.

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I won’t argue with R.Grater. However, I would like to know if the LAJJ will carry an op-ed piece supporting Beck’s efforts.

Comment by paul jeser on 8/16/11 at 1:51 pm

That can be found here: http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/glenn_becks_unwavering_support_for_israel_20110816/

Comment by Jeffrey Hensiek on 8/16/11 at 2:04 pm

Thank you Jeffrey - this was not posted earlier. I’m glad the LAJJ is offering both points of view.

Comment by paul jeser on 8/16/11 at 2:09 pm

I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment. Beck is an actor: it’s not even clear that he believes what he says.  Having been to IL many times (and having many friends there) I can say first-hand that IL doesn’t need him, shouldn’t want him, and—most importantly—should be embarrassed by what he’s doing.

Comment by MCharney on 8/16/11 at 2:23 pm

Beck really only cares about self-promotion not Israel.

His scatter-brained philosphy is lifted from a US Mormon who founded the John Birch Society.  He believes the US Constitution is a Christian document, which proves he never read it.

He is the worst friend Israel could have.  The enemy of your enemy is not neccesarily your friend. 

Just like Palin parading around Israel on Danny D’s arm, Beck seeks to manipulate ISrael for his own benefit.  He is a danger to all thinking and caring people of any religious or political persuasion.

Comment by The Logician on 8/16/11 at 3:37 pm

Another one of Grater’s over the top articles. May be if Grater could bring himself up from time to time up to saying a few good things about Israel, we will not need Glenn Beck. Until such times, I’ll settle for Beck.

Comment by Mini on 8/16/11 at 3:38 pm

Always good for a Rabbi to start off a commentary with name calling. Sets the appropriate tone for reasoned discussion. A personal attack measure is always helpful too.

Comment by nrgreenfield on 8/16/11 at 3:46 pm

Rabbi Grater (than few) disqualifies himself as a fair arbiter in his very first sentence; 
hanging an ad hominem label on Mr. Beck. Fast-forward four paragraphs and Joshua L.  gives-up his thinly disguised political affiliation. Seldom a new tune on the old saw.

As over 75 years ago in Europe, Israeli Jews need the help of every friend available, regardless of their religious affiliation or lack of same.  Why do I have the feeling that Rabbi Grater stands squarely against racial or religious profiling in all other circumstances.

While the usual TJJ ditto-heads are being trotted-out, trust an Orthodox Rebbe will step up and give Grater what for. Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/16/11 at 4:00 pm

Grater substitutes personal attack and McCarthyite “guilt by association” for facts. It is clear he knows kittle about Beck and even less about the event in question. It will be attended by 70 Ambassadors, 4 US Presidential candidates, many members of Congress, and has been blessed by the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel who, after meeting with Beck and discussing the event and its motivation, agreed to deliver the opening blessing. All these dignitaries have advisors who would not lend their principals’ names to the event if it were what Grater claims.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:06 pm

Glen has done more for Israel in the last few weeks then you have done in your whole life. I have asked the all the Jews in LA to help save the Galilee from attacks on the ranches and no Jews want to help but One non Jew is helping. All of you in LA should be ashamed of yourselves. Robin from the Israel Longhorn Project http://longhorn-project.org

Comment by Robin Rosenblatt on 8/16/11 at 4:10 pm

It is once again appropriate to ask why the editor would permit publication of such a libelous and patently false article, opinion or not. The Journal’s anti-Beck frame is driven by lefties loathing Beck’s exposure of their agenda, tactics, and thuggery with in -context video clips in their own words. The Soros machine simply cannot stand exposure to the light of day. “Counterbalancing a libelous, false, slimy piece with a defense opinion doesn’t count. Eshman should be replaced.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:12 pm

Without dwelling long on this or that “ism”, when viewed through a historical prism, it seems fair to relate that the Israeli State is

an Oasis of Freedom in a Desert of Despotism.
an Island of Peace in a Sea of Hostility.
an Island of Hope in a Sea of Despair.
an Oasis of Democracy in a Desert of Tyranny.
And so on.

Hyperbole? Of course,
But only to accentuate the less sharply delineated underlying differences involved. And until non-Israeli actors in the Mid-East change their ways problems of reaching a “rational” (peaceful) solution will not be resolved. 

It seems doubtful that Mr. Beck’s support could change any of the foregoing.

Comment by SpecialKinNJ on 8/16/11 at 4:13 pm

For incontrovertible evidence of the Journal editor’s massive, irrational bias against Beck one has merely to do a search on “Beck” on this site and scan the headlines.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:22 pm

It is a fair question to ask what Beck’s support will do for Israel. By massively rallying opinion leaders well beyond “the choir” Beck creates the possibility for a shift in the propaganda war Israel is, frankly, losing. Its consequences are felt in policy advocacy and execution world-wide. And by attracting key figures to a stand with Israel event, he not only can affect _their_ views, but demonstrate support for developing the political will to stand up to the Arabs and left-wing anti-semites including the Carters of this world,

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:29 pm

Those who live by Beck’s BS will die by his BS.

He is a tireless self-promoter whose connection to Israel is based on his self-interest.

Sternlight and Robin? Get help before you hurt yourself, someone you love, or 8 million Israelis. 

Againster—

All Jews are not Orthodox, so stop hikacking the tradition. You don’t own it, but are free to practice it in your caves by candlelight where you are most comfortable.  Educate a few of your women and you will slowly fade away.

Comment by The Logician on 8/16/11 at 4:34 pm

And another thing. Despite the high cost of travel to Israel Beck’s 3 events there have been sold out for at least a week or two. the event will be televised live to an overflow audience in a large Israeli public square as well, and will have hundreds of live viewing groups in the U.S. Both the last two venues are free. For details check Beck’s web site.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:46 pm

I want to welcome The Logician to the Grater personal attack club. Perhaps he should take his own advice, and further, behave like the name he has chosen for himself by using logic and facts rather than ad hominem argument.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 4:52 pm

A vicious, false rant. With “rabbis” like Grater, who needs anti-Semites?  The claim that B.O. follows “the same set of principles all presidents, prime ministers and negotiators in the Middle East have used for decades, [and] is the only hope for Israel’s survival as a Jewish and democratic state” is a lie. Israel has never faced a more hostsile President.Beck has accurately criticized Soros’ Jew-hatred. He accurately quoted Soros as admitting helping confiscate Jewish property, a time Soros called “his happiest.” The AFPI, of which Grater is so proud, is a leftist group sanitizing Islamism as peaceful via propaganda and “interfaith dialogue.” What a disgusting, vicious rant.

Comment by Davidka on 8/16/11 at 4:56 pm

Actually Rabbi, you, the 400 other rabbis, and your friend, George Soros are the most dangerous enemies of Israel.  Like the Jews who opened the gate to the romans, your actions and your words will destroy us.

Comment by jinny on 8/16/11 at 5:17 pm

Davidka and Jinny—

There you go again, pretending that only you know the truth and that you own Judaism and its traditions.

Because Obama has tried to extend some form of friendliness to the Muslim world, you think he is not working to preserve the state of ISrael.  How naive.

His two state solution is the SAME as all American presidents before him but he is the only one to have specified with “mutually agreed upon land swaps.”

You are so quick on the trigger, you shoot yourselves in the foot.

Comment by The Logician on 8/16/11 at 5:22 pm

Quibble: Political and religious writer W. Cleon Skousen did write books on the End Times in which Jesus’s Second Coming was discussed—but in point of fact, Skousen was always very pro-Israel, having, among other things, authored a book on the Five Day War.

Comment by Anonymous on 8/16/11 at 5:35 pm

Anonymous—

So what if Skousen was pro-Israel?  SO am I, but I am disgusted by the fascistic and selfish policies of his adherents.

Look at the rest of his ideas and you will find him to be a paranoid and delusional zealot.

Comment by The Logician on 8/16/11 at 5:42 pm

The Rabbi is suffering from delusions. Whatever Beck`s motivations he has proven himself to be a strong supporter of Israel and an enemy of anti democratic Islamic fundamentalism.

Comment by Norm on 8/16/11 at 5:49 pm

It is simply inaccurate to equate 1967 boundaries with some land swaps, with the prior US policy of withdrawal from (some) territories. Extensive official US commentary on UN Security Council 242 shows that the omission of “the” before “territories” was a compromise crafted to mean “some’ not all. Thus the starting point of prior US policy is that the territories are all Israeli but they will withdraw from some, no swaps involved, while the starting point of Obama’s 1967 boundaries is that the territories are all Palestinian but they will swap some. Falsifying history works in a totalitarian society like the USSR but not in a free society where the record is public..

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 5:52 pm

So Obama has changed US policy to the detriment of Israel, and worse, lied about what he was doing. But we knew who Obama was during his campaign, when he promised AIPAC that Jerusalem was the single, undivided capital of Israel, only to take it back the next morning when the Arabs didn’t like it.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 6:01 pm

Let’s be completely clear as to responsibility. It is no accident that the heads of cabinet departments are called “secretaries” All Obama had to do is to give some dictation to his “Secretary” of State as in, “Madame Secretary, it is U.S policy that…” Thus he, and he alone is responsible for the betrayal of Israel, Britain, Canada, Poland, and others.

Comment by sternlight on 8/16/11 at 6:29 pm

Am I standing on a head ad reading upside down?  Nice Goy is protecting Israel, and “piesnik” rabby curcing him.  Strange…  I don’t drink any more

Comment by ArkadyDash on 8/16/11 at 6:47 pm

Glenn Beck never accused Soros of “killing Jews”.  He simply played, for his TV audience, portions of an interview with 6o Minutes, where Soros chuckled about how confiscating concentation camp-bound Jews belongings was one of the best times of his life.  Soros went onto say that he has no regrets about working with the Nazis.

Comment by PW4SP on 8/16/11 at 6:48 pm

AL REGEL EHAD…HE HAS A BIG MOUSE BUT GIVE HIM TIME…AND IT WILL BE OK…HE IS NO ANTI-SEMITE…BUT A RIGHTWING JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PRO ISRAEL AS SENATOR LIBERMAN IS…HE SEE COMMUNIST ALL AROUND BUT HAVE A GOOD HEART AND I DON´T THINK HE BELIEVE IN ANY MASHIACH BUT YESHUAH-JESUS…SO DON´T GO SO HARD ON HIM…WE NEED ALL SUPPORTERS WE CAN GET AND HE IS A GOOD ONE FOR ISRAEL !!!...SO TNE LO SMSN VE IHIEH VE SEDER !!!

Comment by ALFONSO on 8/16/11 at 6:52 pm

Glenn Beck was so happy to smear Debra Medina for Rick Perry

Comment by NadePaulKuciGravMcKi on 8/16/11 at 6:56 pm

■

DEAR MR. GLEN BECK…ISRAEL IS NOT U.S.A. ... IT IS A FREE COUNTRY WITH DIFFERENT DEMOCRATICS IDEAS… COMUNISTS ARE OBSOLETE IN THE COUNTRY MAY BE STILL SOME IN THE ARAB SECTOR…BUT MOST ARE MUSLIM THERE…SO 200.000 ISRAELI PROTESTORS ARE NOT AND COULD BE NOT… COMUNIST IN ANY WAY… BUT ANTI-NATANIAHU AND ANTI-CRISIS PEOPLE OF ISRAEL… AND THEY BELONG TO KADIMA AND THE LABOR PARTY AND ALL KINDS OF LIBERAL JEWS…SEE MR. ... YOU DONT HAVE TO BE A CONSERVATIVE AND RIGHT WINGER TO LOVE ISRAEL..AND MOST ISRAELIS ARE CENTER AND LEFT NON COMUNISTS !!!

■

‎

Comment by alfonso on 8/16/11 at 7:19 pm

The ‎200.000 ISRAELIS ARE THE FOLLOWERS OF KADIMA…SOMETHING LIKE YOUR TEA PARTY… FOLLOWERS OF DAVID BEN-GURION AND ARIEL SHARON THAT FORMED THE PARTY…NOT CARL MARX OR LENIN.
I ADMIRE YOU FOR THE SUPPORT YOU DO TO ISRAEL,BUT YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND SHOULD STUDY LITTLE MORE ABOUT IT. ALL THOSE ON THE STREET ARE AND HAVE BEEN SOLDIERS OF ISRAEL.
IS OUR IDF…A COMUNIST ORGANIZATION FOR YOU ?...AND IF SO…THEN MAY BE YOUR OWN ARMY IN THE U.S.A. TOO !!!... SO THINK WELL ..DEAR FRIEND AND AVOID DIVIDING THE FREE-WORLD !!! ...AND LET´S STAND FOR ISRAEL UNITED ...ENEMIES WE HAVE ENOUGH…SO PLEASE MODERATE YOUR VOCABULARY AND LEARN MORE ABOUT ISRAEL AND ITS PEOPLE .

Comment by alfonso on 8/16/11 at 7:30 pm

2nd,
The ‎200.000 ISRAELIS ARE THE FOLLOWERS OF KADIMA…SOMETHING LIKE YOUR TEA PARTY… FOLLOWERS OF DAVID BEN-GURION AND ARIEL SHARON THAT FORMED THE PARTY…NOT CARL MARX OR LENIN.
I ADMIRE YOU FOR THE SUPPORT YOU DO TO ISRAEL,BUT YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND SHOULD STUDY LITTLE MORE ABOUT IT. ALL THOSE ON THE STREET ARE AND HAVE BEEN SOLDIERS OF ISRAEL.
IS OUR IDF…A COMUNIST ORGANIZATION FOR YOU ?...AND IF SO…THEN MAY BE YOUR OWN ARMY IN THE U.S.A. TOO !!!... SO THINK WELL ..DEAR FRIEND AND AVOID DIVIDING THE FREE-WORLD !!! ...AND LET´S STAND FOR ISRAEL UNITED ...ENEMIES WE HAVE ENOUGH…SO PLEASE MODERATE YOUR VOCABULARY AND LEARN MORE ABOUT ISRAEL AND ITS PEOPLE .

Comment by alfonso on 8/16/11 at 7:32 pm

YOUR WINDOW FOR COMMENTS IS VERY UN-FRIENDLY…ASKS STUPIDITIES AND YOUR PROGRAMMER STINKS…WAS VERY TEDIOUS FOR ME TO COMMENT ON YOUR WEBSITE AND SHALOM !!!

Comment by ALFONSO EBEN-NEZ on 8/16/11 at 7:36 pm

Thank goodness Glen Beck is far more recognized and listened to than so called Rabbi Gratner (a rabbi is a teacher and Gratner obviously is one of those ‘useful idiots’ that has nothing to teach us. The fact that he still sees Obama as some sort of credible friend of Israel is all you need to know about his powers of deductive reasoning. May Israel be protected from the likes of Gratner, and I am grateful for friends like Glen Beck.

Comment by Lily Steiner on 8/16/11 at 7:46 pm

If given a choice, I stand with and by Beck Anytime!
He is a true friend of Israel, no matter what the lefties say to discredit or smear him.

Comment by Bill on 8/16/11 at 8:29 pm

Rabbi Grater says, “He [Beck}has compared Reform Judaism to radical Islam, mistakenly calling both political, not faith, movements.”  As a Reform Jew, I believe this statement is true.  Reform Judaism and the Unitarians are essentially political movements.  Look at their ritual, listen to their sermons.  Reform Judaism is attempting to clean up its act by promoting the wearing of Jewish uniforms at its services (kipas and prayer shawls, for example, are optional).  The Reform movement, started in Germany, was designed to make Jews look less odd and more like Christians.  We Jews have to accept that reality.

Comment by Aaron on 8/16/11 at 10:15 pm

Grater’s claim that Beck accused Soros of killing Jews is vicious and untrue. Beck replayed an interview in which Soros fondly reminisced about helping the Nazis confiscate the property of Jews and how it was the happiest time of his whole life. Soros also said he had no remorse about his actions. Soros has a Jewish background but his parents were anti-Jewish and Soros himself works tirelessly against Israel. Glenn Beck, in contrast, loves and supports Israel. And Grater ought to pause in his viciousness to read the Commandment about not bearing false witness.

Comment by Davidka on 8/16/11 at 10:21 pm

The mere fact that nobody knows why they hate Israel proves the case for God, and more so for Christ.  He foretold all of this and yet everyone’s trying to stop the will of our creator. You people on any side other than Jesus Christ are all earthly bound minded people and I pray that you’ll focus on the son of God and nothing else. All Glory be to Him forever and ever.

Comment by Mike on 8/16/11 at 10:26 pm

The only reasons most conservative Christians support Israel is they hate Muslims and without Israel you cannot have the end of the world and the Resurrection.  You know, that’s where anyone who does not believe in Christ as their savior, dies. It is beyond me how Jews have no understanding of this.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/16/11 at 11:06 pm

The Vatican has made it doctrine that the Jews don’t need to be saved by the Christian savior; they were saved by Moses at Sinai. The Muslims that Christians may hate in the modern world are those who persecute and murder them. Dunno if Ms Lester has a calendar, but it’s been a while since the Crusades.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/17/11 at 12:00 am

**************************************************
We need your help, not the evangelicals.
On September 20, we want you with us! we don’t want the help of people with interests and those who think “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”.

Please do not wait for the extremists to identified with Israel. Take your sincere support to the street on - September 20 & 21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNwPoqEBgyc

Comment by israeli from israel on 8/17/11 at 12:35 am

hey rabbi,

instead of bashing beck, why arent you bashing all the american jews who are currently assisting in the demonization of israel and her people, and by extension american and european jewry, which has led many in israel to embrace nuts like beck, who pretend to be friends of the state and her people?

or is the “rabbi” one of those who does things like back bds and state things like “its the settlements that are obstructing peace”?

Comment by walt kovacs on 8/17/11 at 1:07 am

Than you call Beck a nut and claim he is pretending suggests that you believe you have mind-reading powers greater then those vouchsafed to ordinary mortals. It is such a view that is delusional, not Beck’s.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/17/11 at 1:26 am

I would like to thank the JJ for giving a true friend of the Jews and Israel Glen Beck, free publicity.

Comment by Truth Teller on 8/17/11 at 7:49 am

This is most skewed, muddled, and ignorant article I’ve ever read. You have to scheme for days in order to spin and twist things this far. To insinuate that Beck is anti-semitic and secretly against Israel is all in your head. Quit polluting the mind’s of readers who can’t discern that this is complete hogwash. Furthermore, it is very evident that you only have a sophomoric understanding, at best, of reality.

Comment by Time for Truth on 8/17/11 at 8:31 am

I bet rabbi Grater is more comfortable with “J” street and CAIR than any fundamentalist Christian. 
Which is better for Israel? 
I’ll take Beck.

Comment by Jack on 8/17/11 at 10:28 am

Logician, attacks against Skousen are often overstated or ad hominem, sometimes subtly attacking the man’s Mormon religion.

I’m myself left of center—even left of Obama. I happen to be aware that Skousen’s “Constitutional” conservatism was no more anti-Semitic than, say, Ron Paul’s nowadays. (And Paul seems to be neutral on Zionism whereas Skousen was ardently pro-Zionist…as Glenn Beck is.

I guess what the confusion comes from is Skousen’s famous/IN-famous book on the, um, alleged New World Order conspiracy: “The Naked Capitalist.”

Let’s let Media Matters hash all these strands out for us. (See next comment.)

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/17/11 at 1:32 pm

What essentially Judeophile W. Cleon Skousen actually wrote in “Naked” was “No student of the global conspiracy should fall for the Hitlerian doctrine that the root of all evil is a super ‘Jewish conspiracy’....”) This fact sometimes gets lost. Media Matters gets it right: <blockquote>Beck’s affinity[...]W. Cleon Skousen is well-documented. Skousen’s book, The 5,000-Year Leap, is at the center of Beck’s 9-12 Project[...]. But much of what Skousen wrote has been forgotten or never progressed far beyond the obscure fringes that Skousen himself inhabited. We’ve already explored Skousen’s unique take[...]wherein slave owners were “the worst victims” of slavery[...].

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/17/11 at 1:40 pm

(From Media Matters, cont.):

Take, for instance, Skousen’s 1970 book, The Naked Capitalist. It’s ostensibly a review of Dr. Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope, and in it Skousen declares that Quigley is an “insider” in a grand “power complex” that will “eventually attain total global control.” [...]Page 6: “The real value of Tragedy and Hope is not so much as a ‘history of the world in our time’ (as its subtitle suggests), but rather as a bold and boastful admission by Dr. Quigley that there actually exists a relatively small but powerful group which has succeeded in acquiring a choke-hold on the affairs of practically the entire human race.”

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/17/11 at 1:45 pm

(Media Matters):

This is what is known as New World Order conspiracy theorism—the idea that the affairs of the entire globe are secretly controlled by a small group of extremely wealthy (and usually Jewish, though Skousen didn’t seem to buy into that) cabal of individuals who are either Freemasons or Illuminati or Stonecutters or whatever.

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/17/11 at 1:47 pm

Beck and members of the LDS are not fundamentalist.  Their religion is completely separate from evengelicals and/or fundamentalist.  The good Rabbi should study the LDS beliefs before he make any ignorant statements.  Visit Salt Lake City, its is a beautiful place.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/17/11 at 1:53 pm

Mormons are not some ethereal or weird sect but very practical, industrious people. One of the best Secretaries of Agriculture we ever had, Ezra Taft Benson, was a Mormon. They do have some (to outsiders) odd practices like baptizing non-Mormon dead for entirely altruistic reasons, and a fixation on genealogy, but every religion has practices that could be thought odd by non-believers. There was one controversy with Jews, when the Mormons decided to baptize holocaust victims so they would “go to heaven”, but after protests they stopped it. In a foxhole, I’d much rather be next to a Mormon than a left-wing Jew. I know I could count on the Mormon.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/17/11 at 2:41 pm

In his 2009 critical overview of the history modern US conservatism “Right Time, Right Place,” Richard Brookhiser writes: “Other people’s bugaboos—communists, Jews, Masons—were epiphenomena to [Skousen]. The real wire-pullers of history were the insider businessmen and their strategists who sponsored revolutions and wars to fatten their wallets. The UR-insider turned out to be an aid to Woodrow Wilson, Col. Edwin House; a novel he had written[...]explained all later history.”

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/17/11 at 3:07 pm

LDS has Skousen and the Jews have chomsky, we all have our odd members.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/17/11 at 4:17 pm

The Mormon Church, Beck’s Church, does not teach end of world prophecies, unfortunately, in the age of Glenn Beck, they do. Beck has spoken about the Apocalypse numerous times. This is when G-D destroys the ruling powers of evil, allowing only the righteous to live. According to most Christians, especially Fundamentalists, the righteous are those who believe in Christ as their personal L-rd savior. This leaves out Jews and Roman Catholics. You can’t have the Apocalypse without Israel. This is why Glenn Beck believes in Israel, as do most right wing christian conservatives. I believe in Israel as the Jewish homeland and the only democracy in the Mideast.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/18/11 at 12:44 am

Marcia: It is perfectly true that some end times Christians believe as you say. But to claim that is Beck’s reason for supporting Jews and Israel is to impute motives to him for which you have no evidence; some might call it paranoid thinking. Surely you can’t believe you can read his mind. If you could there is a great career ahead of you on the stage.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 1:54 am

Why are so many secular/non-observant (liberal) Jews so worked up by Christian beliefs? This is comical. If you are serious about X-ian theology, you are a Christian, not a Jew. When the end of-days comes, we will know who is right, but until then I will accept friendly X-ian hands extended to me. Who cares about Glen Beck’s belief! I can only judge him by his actions, and he is a great friend of the Jews and Israel.

Comment by Harvey on 8/18/11 at 9:50 am

Young R’ Grater: Ironically, Jews with a long history of persecutions for their beliefs, not for their actions, are now going after non-Jews for their beliefs, not for their actions. This is done by a rabbi who proclaim to be liberal, as in “open minded”. If Glen Beck can shake your trust in your Jewish beliefs to that extent, you are not even Jewish.

Comment by Harvey on 8/18/11 at 9:59 am

Between Grater and Beck, I will take Beck with two hands. Sorry to see an obscure rabbi stirring up so much emotions in a little known publication. Pathetic.

Comment by Truth Teller on 8/18/11 at 10:13 am

I am angry at you for defaming Rabbi Meir Kahane. He was one of the great heroes of the Jewish people, and will be remembered for the Jewish Defense League which put guns in the hands of Jews instead of to their heads. He was dead right about expelling Muslim Arabs from Israel, and his advice still rings true. We Jews should welcome Glen Beck for supporting Israel. Most of the world does not.

Comment by Earl on 8/18/11 at 11:48 am

David Sternite, the video, “Rumors of War 2,” about End Times prophesies, was released by Beck on August 11. http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/glenn/rumorsofwar/

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/18/11 at 4:26 pm

Glenn Beck is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

He is indeed a friend of Israel for the wrong reasons.

Take his support at your own risk.

Comment by The Logician on 8/18/11 at 4:59 pm

Just a friendly suggestion for The Logician. Don’t _believe_ what you assert so dogmatically. Recognize that you don’t KNOW, can’t read Beck’s mind, and it is only your opinion. If we venture into the world of opinion, one man one vote and you are massively outvoted.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 5:07 pm

To be precise, Beck never said he was a friend of Israel so the end times could come and Xtians could be saved in his particular savior. Thus, if you are genuine and not a shill for the anti-Beck crowd, you are imputing motives; it’s all in your head.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 5:14 pm

Reminds me of the old joke about the rabbi and the priest discussing Moshiach. The priest asked the rabbi what the first question he would ask when the Messiah came. The rabbi replied, “I’d ask him: were you here before?”

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 5:23 pm

David—

I judge Beck on his actions and words, not on his Israel policy.

He is an incendiary muckracker and a self-aggrandizing hack.  He is not a journalist.  He called President Obama a racist and sponsors withdrew from his program.

He was fired from Fox because he was too radical for even that despicable broadcast organ of selfishness.

He is a poseur, and not very smart.  As an ex-DJ he knows he gets a lot of attention from yelling.

There is no content there other than headlines.

Look to someone with a brain for your salvation.

And Skousen was a lunatic.

Comment by The Logician on 8/18/11 at 6:07 pm

I don’t know much about Glenn Beck, but if he’s promoting his religious beliefs, in Jerusalem no less, how can we NOT be a little skeptical?  I’m late to the party here,as I know little of Beck beyond Lewis Black skits. What does Beck say IS the reason for his extreme and hugely publicized support of Israel?  Why Israel, not,say, Tibet, or any other place fighting for its identity?

Comment by Shani on 8/18/11 at 6:10 pm

Did Glenn Beck REALLY say that Christians were present at Sinai????  I just saw reference to this alleged comment on another site.

Comment by Shani on 8/18/11 at 6:20 pm

Beck is not promoting his religious views in a sectarian way. Rather he is promoting our common heritage under Hashem and justice, both of which require us to “stand with Israel”. Do you think for a moment the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi, after meeting and talking with Beck, would bless him, the event, and agree to deliver the opening blessing if there were anything funny going on? And the 70 ambassadors, 4 US Presidential candidates, and many US legislators who will be present have smart advisors who wouldn’t let them all lend their names to something funny.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 7:00 pm

Since I have already commented on The Logician’s approach in another thread, and he has demonstrated that he is not being sincere with the subsequent, above post, I can only conclude that he is either a propagandist with no respect for facts and evidence, or a troll. In either case, having given him the benefit of the doubt I am now satisfied he merits (for me, at least) Cherem.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 7:09 pm

To explain to those unfamiliar with the term, I use the meaning ‘one is not permitted to teach the offender or work for him, or benefit him in any way, except when he was in need of the bare necessities of life.’

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 7:14 pm

I believe that Rabbi Metzger, who has always been a proponent of interfaith dialogue, may view this “rally” as an example of his desires for inspiring a religious united “nations”.  In light of Beck’s enthusiastic support for Israel, and his frankly courageous publicizing of his opinions about Israel, Beck must embody a hope that seemed lost. Beck’s understanding of Jews/Judaism,from what I’ve seen, is wholly Xtian-Amero-centric. He could be hurtful to many,despite the best of intentions.I do worry that Beck may provoke violence or worse, but I’m a worrier. I truly hope that I am unjustifiably suspicious of this man’s motives; particularly in the wake of the Eilat murders.

Comment by Shani on 8/18/11 at 7:50 pm

Don’t know where I’ve been. I guess I never thought about “LDS” or “Mormon” except as a Christian sect, (i.e. Catholic, Episcopal,etc.)  I just read that their teachings assert that they are Jews and they will be restored as a tribe in Israel. This isn’t a common teaching of Christianity, is it?  I feel so ignorant.

Comment by Shani on 8/18/11 at 9:05 pm

Shani: Beck had a massive rally at the Lincoln Memorial with attendance not seen since Matin Luther King. Security was good, the crowd was respectful, the topic was American heritage and values, there were Rabbis, Ministers, Priests on the platform, and the crowd cleaned up after themselves and left the place spotless. In contrast, at an ideologically competing event the crowd was smaller, though large, there were many offensive and defamatory signs, and the crowd left an American sacred space looking like a war zone.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 10:08 pm

Mormon beliefs do contain an element of philo-Judaism, I do know they are good people, albeit with some regrettable incidents in their early history when they were persecuted and driven from place to place, They ended up in Utah as, I believe, the majority, and then spread. Their Tabernacles have a unique architecture with a massive spire capped by a golden angel, (the “Angel Moroni”), rising to the sky, There are big ones in major cities as well as smaller Tabernacles, and some of the newer ones (for example in La Jolla, CA) have stunning modernistic exteriors, architecturally speaking. They are highly protective of their sacred spaces and do not allow non-Mormons into their sanctuaries.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 10:35 pm

Unlike some sects that rely heavily on a few wealthy donors, Mormons require their members to obey the Biblical injunction of tithing, and they do, giving 10 percent of their incomes to the church.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 10:43 pm

David, I believe I do have the evidence you asked about. Beck spoke at a rally for Christians United for Israel, a group run by Pastor John Hagee. Hagee believes in Armageddon and that the Holocaust was the fault of those Jews who did not return to Israel. In my research, I discovered that a man, given awards by Jews for his support of Israel, is just another anti-Semite, like Beck. Hagee is a strong supporter of Gov.Perry, also. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/18/11 at 11:15 pm

Marcia: Guilt by association is a McCarthyite smear tactic, not evidence.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/18/11 at 11:38 pm

David—

The best defense is a good offense?

That makes you very naive.  Guilt by association?  Appearing at that event makes Beck an endorser in a general way.

That is why Obama does not appear at Tea Party events.
That is why you do not attend J Street events or go to Muslim cafes and talk to people or mosques and see what that religion is like, weird and t wisted as it may be prafcticed in many places.

So don’t pull that cheap shot out. It jusst shows the weakness of your position and that you have no idea how the world wworks.

Berck is manipulating you, just as much as Israel or the goofy John Hagee. But you are too stubborn and blind to see it.

Comment by The Logician on 8/19/11 at 6:40 am

Logi, aren’t you getting tired of your own nonsense?

Comment by Avi on 8/19/11 at 7:42 am

Marcia, I happened to know the rev. Hagee personally. I am close friend of an associate of his, a faculty member at Liberty University. You may agree or disagree with their politics, but let me tell you dear, the Jews and Israel could not have better friends than they are. They are quite aware of the disdain liberal Jews have against them, and they are really pained by it. As for Logi, come on man, don’t feel people are already getting tired of you repeating your mantra over and over again?

Comment by Avi on 8/19/11 at 7:49 am

Thank you Avi.  Logi is such a liberal self hating Jew that he can’t accept a conservative Christian friend.  I just watched the funeral for an Israeli soldier,killed by Logi’s heros from Gaza.
Logi you have no idea how the world works.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/19/11 at 7:56 am

Logi has called those who support the Israeli govnt policies nazis.  Logi you have blood on your hands.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/19/11 at 8:03 am

Rabbi Grater, your hypocrisy knows no limits. Our own far-left president, the one you adore so much has had Rev. Wright as a mentor, was closely associated with terrorists Bill Ayres and Bernadine Rae Dohrn, was a personal friend of Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi, an apologist and spokesman for the PLO. Also, his ties to the convict Tony Rezko, a political fundraiser, are well documented. Yet you are so worked up by a conservative entertainer named Glen.

Comment by Avi on 8/19/11 at 8:04 am

Honey Bee sweetheart, I don’t think Logi is not a self hating Jew. He is just a confused Liberal who attempts to run the world from behind the computer. His hate for conservatives gives him the feeling of Tikkun Olam.

Comment by Mini on 8/19/11 at 8:11 am

Honey Bee, I think you are confusing Logi with HollywoodJeff. Logi is a leftie Zionist

Comment by Avi on 8/19/11 at 8:13 am

Logi called Ben a nazi and when I repremanded him,he called me a nazi.  A curse on both their

houses,Jewisj children have been murdered!!!!!!!!

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/19/11 at 8:43 am

I’ve been doing some cursory “research” via Google. I haven’t truly studied Mormonism, obviously, so please don’t be offended if I say something way off. From what I’ve perused Mormons see themselves as a people “with” Israel- a side-by-side sort of cooperative. In my experience Fundamentalists want to “take over” Jews and more or less obliterate us with Jesus. Israel is still us, it seems, to Mormons. Maybe Beck isn’t missionizing…(the last thing we need).

Comment by Shani on 8/19/11 at 10:12 am

Glenn Beck is constantly exhorting his audience not to take his word for things but to do their own research. Congratulations.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/19/11 at 10:20 am

I don’t accept blindly any information from anyone, ever, David. The solid information you offered here to support your comments motivated me to take a closer look, and I read through most of the night. I participate in conversations on this site to get insight and perspective. At this point I’m willing to accept that Beck’s trip to Israel is not a conversion tactic, and that he is honestly supportive.

Comment by Shani on 8/19/11 at 12:48 pm

From http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/08/19/glenn-beck-and-the-jewish-leadership-vacuum/:

“Beck told his Hamptons audience that his mission in Israel is to convey three distinct messages, the first to Christians, ‘don’t try and convert the Jews,’ the second, to remember past atrocities that have been perpetrated against the Jewish people, and the third, that all must stand courageously with Israel. [...] ¶ Does it bother me that he is somewhat of a sensationalist[...]. No. I[...]am certainly not bothered if his activism is an effort to actualize Christian prophecy[...].

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/19/11 at 2:47 pm

[Continued]:

“[...] What bothers me about Glenn Beck, albeit by no fault of his own, is also what bothers me about many Jewish leaders today, namely that he tends to define the Jewish people through their victimhood. Is Beck an anti-Semite? Absolutely not. He defines Jews as many Jews define themselves.”

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/19/11 at 2:48 pm

Chomsky: Pro Israel Christian Right Most Anti-Semitic People In The World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wIBp4mj5C94

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/19/11 at 2:52 pm

Chomsky is a far left ideologue. MIT supports him for two reasons:
1. In his chosen field of linguistics/semantics, he is a towering genius;
2. MIT has a long memory and well remembers the persecution of one of its professors,, Dirk Jan Struik, by Senator McCarthy, for his ideas.

He is yet another example of a genius straying out of his field of expertise to make a fool of himself, but because of his genius people don ‘t see that the emperor has no clothes. And his outrageous political opinions (to which he is entitled) blinds people to that the emperor has no clothes. Whenever I hear someone quote Chomsky outside his expertise, my warning Radar goes Ding!

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/19/11 at 4:45 pm

David Sternlight:

Why does not your radar warn you of fraud when Glenn Beck speaks outside of his expertise?

Becuase he tells you what want to hear, not what you need to hear.

I am a staunch defendser of Israel, and embarrassed that he has been allowed to take the bully pulpit.

DO you know why?  BEcause 80 US COngresspeople willl be visiting at the same time and he figures he can get added media attention, as well as suck up to the idiots among them who will listen.

Beck’s people do not do their own research…they have him to spoon feed his Religious Right propaganda to them.

Comment by The Logician on 8/19/11 at 4:53 pm

The Struik situation was similar to Chomsky’s in one respect; Struik was, as I recall, a great math professor whose left-wing, perhaps communist ideas were outside his field of expertise. But like Chomsky, he never did more than espouse his ideas, not a criminal offense in this free country of ours.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/19/11 at 4:57 pm

The McCarthy history is full of contradictions. In some cases history proved him right (Hiss/Chambers, the Venona papers) but along the way he destroyed many innocent victim’s careers and today is seen by many as a monochromatic demon. It was probably because his fatal flaw was an inability to make distinctions, coupled with perhaps overweening political ambitions. Well, time to down tools for Shabbos; see you all on the other side.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/19/11 at 5:08 pm

David you are naive. Beck invites fundamentalists and Jews for Jesus people to his radio show all the time. He’s made several anti-Semitic statements. He believes in Armageddon and you still don’t believe he loves Israel for the destruction of the Jews. You and those like you are living in a dreamworld. Wake-Up!

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/21/11 at 12:16 am

Marcia: Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 8:13 am

David—

That was a weak response to MArcia and it shows you are running out of justification for Beck as a silver bullet for ISrael.

Marcia has a much more reasoned and fact supported argument than you.  Your record here is Orthodox centric and very one sided.

Make Beck a one position demagogue and of course he says the right things to someone of your persuasion.

But if look at his history, life and professional history, you see a poorly educated charlatan, bent on self-promotion and anti-demcrfactic philosphy.

Comment by The Logician on 8/21/11 at 12:39 pm

Logi, Pour hot water on you and instant Bubkes.  If you are Jewish what do you care what any Believes out side you own religion.  Good for Dave the Orthodox are grounded. And Marcia, what are you afraid of.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/21/11 at 2:38 pm

Honey Bee—

You area disgrace to your own religion, which teaches us to care about others outside of our religion.

The Orthodox are not grounded in reality, only in the world as they define it for themselves, which is their right…until they amass political power in excess of their numbers.

They don’t educate their women, they force them to have too many children, they don’t serve in the military, the men don’t work, they take subsidies from the State of ISrael, and many others do not even acknowledge the State, yet insist upon their defense at State expense.

I don’t call that grounded.  It is closed-minded and selfish.  It is called fundamentalism.

Comment by The Logician on 8/21/11 at 3:08 pm

From my limited observatioms .I have a Jewish woan or girls for that matter who can easly pushed around, you are insulting Jewish women,in general, and Orthodox women in particular.But ,at least you didn’t call me a nazie{this Time}.  Some of my best friend are evengelicals and hard shell Babtist.  No doubt

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/21/11 at 3:19 pm

Honey Bee—

I allow you your best friends of any persuasion.  Many devout people are moral, decent people.  It’s when they overstp personal beliefs and force them upon adults that I find it morally repulsive.

I never called anyone a Nazi, except Germans who fought in WWII and those who support Nazism today.

Depriving Orthodox Jewish of the right to choose to be educated is parental neglect.

I am not insulting anyone except a ridiculous ultra Orthodox person who believes women should not be educated.  And it is not an insult, it is statement about the violation of a basic human right.

Please read more carefully.

Comment by The Logician on 8/21/11 at 3:33 pm

Logi darlin, if I may be familliar, since I’am not Orthodox \, I can read. And you did call Ben Palonie and I natzies!  My friends and I enjou discussing religion, and everyone is courtious,  I taught them to make Lakes and they smothered them with green chili,a delioous step to relioous understanding,  Delious,you should try it, lighten up your life.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/21/11 at 3:52 pm

Poor Logi. Honey Bee is all over him, interrupting his Tikkun Olam from behind the computer. Hon Bee, you know, except for Orthodox Jews (yuck), Christians, Mormons, conservatives, Republicans , and people who are not as enlightened as he is, Logi loves everyone, though not so many left . So Hon, don’t get between him and his neurosis. Let him express himself on the computer. It’s therapeutic, and cheaper than a shrink. BTW, he has not called anyone a Nazi.

Comment by Mini on 8/21/11 at 4:11 pm

And Logi, you forgot to mention a few things about them Orthodox Jews. They are ugly, hairy, and most have crooked noses. And they smell too, because they never wash. If they only were as enlightened and gorgeous like you (the Reform Jew), we would be better off. BTW Logi, I’m sure you heard Orthodox kids are the best and the dares of the IDF, but never mind. Did you serve in the Army, Logy? No, I don’t mean the Salvation Army?

Comment by Mini on 8/21/11 at 4:12 pm

Marcia Lester, it gets far worse than what you said! Mr. Beck also invites Blacks on his radio show, and Asians, and even Orthodox Jews (yuck!). Marcia, did you know his wife is not even Jewish? And I heard that sheigetz Beck eats eggs & bacon for bkfast and shrimps for lunch! Can you believe it? Gevald!

Comment by Mini on 8/21/11 at 4:15 pm

Mini, you mean his Glen’s wife is a shiksa? Noooo! I would fire him immediately and hire Logi instead. He is so much better.

Comment by Truth teller on 8/21/11 at 7:21 pm

Mini/Honey Bee—

How great you have a sense of humor.  It humanizes you.

I said that many Jewish wingnuts reduce themselves to the level of Nazis with their hatred and intolerance.

I acknowledge you do not have a systematized method of extermination like Nazis…unless you include your insistance that no one should care about the world beyond Judaism.

I have friends who are Orthodox Jewish,Christian, black, Asian friends and even Muslim.  It is not those religions or ethnicities I despise…but people who corrupt the world with hatred, bigotry and closed-mindedness. The male subjection of women as not worthy of education or as not capable of benfitting from it is repulsive and archaic.

Comment by The Logician on 8/21/11 at 7:49 pm

Logi darling, I don’t hate anyone who doesn’t hate me. Anyway I am just curious, for all your talk about the world, what have you done to improve it other than just write about your feeling? BTW, do your Orthodox friends know what you say about them behind their backs? You must be one special friend.

Comment by Mini on 8/21/11 at 8:13 pm

Glenn Beck had the first of three events in Israel today, in the Romsn Theatre, to a sold-out crowd. Rabbi Riskin, Pastor Hagee, and Rev. Khoury (an Arab Israeli Xtian) all gave inspiring talks.
The theme was Love and Courage.. All the Xtian speakers said, “We must love the Jews, our elder brothers, as they are, and not try to change them.” The crowd rose to its feet and cheered.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 8:53 pm

Hagee gave a particularly inspiring talk, though Rabbi Riskin got a huge ovation for his brilliant talk as well, Hagee recalled John Kennedy’s visit to Berlin when they were alone and isolated, and stood with them and said, “Ich Bin Ein Berliner”—I am a Berliner. (No jokes about doughnuts please.) Hagee spoke of Israel and the Jewish people being under threat and concluded repeatedly with “Ani Yisraeli—I am an Israeli.”

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 8:55 pm

He had the crowd repeat it several times, to massive cheers and applause. It was inspiring to see all those non-Jewish faces lit up as they stood, unselfishly, often at great cost and in some cases at personal risk to their lives (the Arabs including those from Arab countries) to make manifest the theme of the events: “Stand With Israel”. Hagee concluded by saying that words were not enough; deeds were required, and to the Israelis he said, “We are not our government, and we will stand with Israel to our dying breath.” The crowd went wild

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 8:55 pm

David, you mean Beck did not serve pork to the Jews? Can’t torture Logi like that. He may turn suicidal.

Comment by Mini on 8/21/11 at 9:03 pm

Some of the other points made, included:
This is not about the Holocaust,; that was just the latest event over two thousand years of persecution and murder of Jews by the Church, (Hagee)
David Barton reviewed the history of the place they were in (Cesarea), where Rabbi Akiba was murdered for his faith, and the trial of Paul took place.
Rev.Khoury spoke of loving each other for out common humanity.
Rabbi Riskin gave an insightful sermon on “the other” and loving the otherness. He discussed how difficult this could be for those raised to see fellow human beings with the same God-giuven DNA as other.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 9:09 pm

All the clerical speakers blessed beck for his work and for the event. Beck had to hold back tears on several occasions.

The audience was attentive, intense, cheering at all the appropriate points, and there were no incidents. John Voight was there and singled out, but did not speak. I believe he is scheduled for a later event. One should note that Voight, a Xtian, has been at almost every Chabad Telethon for many years in L.A, dancing with Rabbi Cunin and urging listeners to donate.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 9:13 pm

One interesting and frank point was made by Beck when he discussed the Jewish “Flinch”. He explained to the audience that when Jews hear Xtians standing with them or defending them they have a flinch response from two thousand years of persecution. (That reminds me of the reaction of some here to Beck.) Then he said that Israelis don’t have this flinch response; they stand with pride in their own land and know who they are.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 9:36 pm

Several speakers mentioned the IDF and each tine the crowd cheered. Entertainment was by a beautiful and moving Israeli Chorus which sung largely in Hebrew, and an American Gospel singer in English. All the songs, sermons and messages were ecumenical, emphasizing what unites us and overtly avoiding theological differences. The only “in the name of” in the prayers was God.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/21/11 at 9:36 pm

Mini, this is no time to joke. All, if not most of his guests are right wing conservatives, possibly just like you and David. You, and people like you, are unaware of history. Where do you get your information? Do you research ALL the facts, right, left, and center? Yes, I am afraid, afraid of people like you. If you think Glenn Beck is so great, make him president. See what happens to America. See what happens to Jews in America.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/21/11 at 10:56 pm

Yes, we do our own research. The left provides frothing at the mouth, name calling, guilt by association, and ad hominem attacks. There’s little more they can do because they have no hard evidence, and the general population has twigged to their game. The left is in extremes, has shown they have no respect for the Constitution, and would engineer a thuggish coup a la SEIU if they could. The latest lefty quote, without realizing it’s meaning, ins “Let 100 flowers bloom.” That is straight out of Mao, whose full quote ends (based on subsequent history) so I can see who they are and cut their heads off.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 12:19 am

The center has awakened (beware when that happens) and overwhelmingly rejects the ideology and tactics of the left which got the country into the current mess. They _will_ fix it.

The right relies on reasoned argument, evidence, and a certain cynicism about the left (a la Ann Coulter’s mordant wit)

Meanwhile, the President has rejected the left, which infuriates them, but he knows their agenda cannot pass an awakened House, put there by the center. while rejecting the left, he cannot bring himself to embrace the center because in his heart he’s still an Alinsky ideologue. The next election will fix it.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 12:26 am

As to the “so-called” right wing, as distinct from the real right, that is name calling by the left in an attempt to pseudospeciate and demonize those who disagree with them and don’t buy their bankrupt ideology. To the left, anyone who is against spending money we don’t have, or bloated government,  or in favor of firing incompetent union members (including incompetent teachers) is a right-wing ideologue. Unfortunately for the left, that is most of the middle, which vastly outnumbers the left.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 12:33 am

What are you afraid of Marcia? Mini is not joking,she has that Jewish sence of irony. Go make some latkes and green chili.  David, I love when the left call me names is mean I have stung them.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/22/11 at 6:51 am

http://www.gloria-center.org/gloria/2011/08/glenn-beck-correct-on-middle-east

Barry Rubin: “Conservatives and Christians aren’t drooling to convert, kill, or use Jews to bring on the apocalypse. That’s out-dated. While doing everything possible to work with liberals and social democrats, we must understand—whatever our personal political views—that Israel and the Jewish people have a new set of allies.
Why have these groups changed their views on Jews? With religion imperiled in the West, they see Jews as fellow believers rather than—as in past antisemitism—corrosive atheists and Jesus-killers.”

Comment by WraithOfBlake on 8/22/11 at 8:50 am

Marcia dear, you say Glen Beck’s guests were all conservatives? Really? Oh my, who would have thought! Couldn’t he get some West LA Type Jew to make you and Logi a bit more comfi? Marcia, for all your hysteria about Glen Beck, you and Logi are not concerned a bit about your idols Obama-Holder stopping the prosecution proceedings against the terror funding Holy Land Foundation? Glenn Beck is what scares the bejesus out of you? Marcia dear, have some coffee.

Comment by Mini on 8/22/11 at 8:56 am

Look Mom, look Dad: 3000 friends gathered in Caesarea Israel to show their support of the Jewish people. Mom and Dad, I wish you were still alive to see it.

Comment by Avi on 8/22/11 at 9:15 am

My Dad{may he rest in peace}use to say “,Who wants to belong to a club that would take me for a member”
  Has anybody been watching Larry David?.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/22/11 at 10:13 am

I closely follow Rabbi.Grater. His position on Israel’s struggle for survival is:” this is not a black and white issue; rather it is the area of grey, what I like to call the ‘nuance zone’  “. No Rabbi, the murder of Moshe & Flora Gaz, and Flora’s sister Shula Karlinsky and her husband, Dov Karlinsky and the more than 80 missiles fired at the civilians of Israel are part of a continuing campaign of terror and an act of war. Supporting those who want to delegitimize Israel by giving them a platform and recognition and demonizing those who support Israel (Glenn Beck, Rev. Hagee,etc) reveals your actions. Only God can know your heart. Thank you: Sternlight,PW4SP,Steiner,Aaron,Davidka

Comment by LT COL HOWARD on 8/22/11 at 12:15 pm

Forgive this Rabbi G-D, for he knows not what he talks about. Anotherwords, he cares more about liberalism than he does about Judaism.

Comment by Rich on 8/22/11 at 12:47 pm

The good Rabbi Grater belongs to the wrong club,how else can he expiate himself.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/22/11 at 1:20 pm

Honey Bee: Unless your father was Groucho Marx, he was quoting. I do the same.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 1:30 pm

I find it amazing that those Jews who have substituted left of center economics and   left of center politics for the very excellent teachings of Judaism are the most offended when Christians support Israel’s right to exist. The following article is a good background of all Israel governments welcoming Christian support.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0811/chafets_beck.php3?printer_friendly

Comment by CHRISTIAN SERVICE WORKER on 8/22/11 at 1:32 pm

By the way, the original quote is “I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member”

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 1:34 pm

My Dad was funnier then Groucho.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/22/11 at 1:44 pm

Lucky you.. I wish I had known him.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/22/11 at 1:47 pm

It would have ent you were in trouble.  As a very young boy he worked for Buffalo Bill and delieved paperss to the Unsinable Molly Brown. She was a good wman who always left food on a table on he porch with food for the hungry paperboys.

Comment by honey Bee on 8/22/11 at 1:59 pm

Rich and others—

You are comfortable stewing in your own venom.

You defiel your professed religion with hatred, and hard-heartedness.  Remember your “al chait” and take it seriously.

Your archaic simplicity is exactly what will drive Israel to destruction.

Comment by The Logician on 8/22/11 at 7:33 pm

If this “rabbi” had bothered to watch any of Beck’s shows, he would realise that Beck genuinely has a love of Israel based on the Bible’s declaration of God’s eternal love for His people.  He is one of the ONLY ones standing up PUBLICLY for Israel. 

Most liberal Jews couldn’t give a hoot about Israel. They continuously demonise it and many even identify with our enemies.  Most who support us are Evangelical Christians and the Zionist Orthodox.

The old knee-jerk thinking is still there - the political correctness and ghetto paranoia.  We still don’t know who our friends are and we can’t even discern the truth about our enemies.

Comment by Rachel Klein on 8/22/11 at 8:19 pm

To counteract Rabbi Grater “lashin harah”  ,here is an account of what actually happened from Jews who attended Becks rally:Glenn Beck brings much needed love and support  

“I took the trouble to attend Glenn Beck first Restoring Honour event in Ceasaria last night. Glad I did. The evening was fun & inspirational. The setting was beautiful & videos which provided the background to the speakers highlighted the land of Israel in all its beauty. My friends also in attendance included Yisrael Medad, Brian of London, Martin Sherman, David Bedein, David HaIvri, Stewart Palmer, Helen Freedman, Jeff Daube and so on.
Here is a review and pictures by Yisrael Medad and Brian of London

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 8/22/11 at 8:53 pm

Nothing that the “Logician” can be taken seriously.  He accuses me ov VENOM.  For what?  He says that I defiel my professed religion?  Really.  Did I even claim that I was Jewish? All I said that this Rabbi cares more about liberalism than Judaism.  I know that from his current and previous articles to the Journal.  Your logic “logician” is warped.

Comment by Rich on 8/23/11 at 5:31 pm

Believing in Beck and his friends is your choice, but don’t generalize about people, not thinking your way. Don’t blame Pres. Obama for the mess GW got us into. Maybe the bloated government should stop Medicare, housing subsidies to poor seniors and let the oil companies continue their entitlements. No American president is going to let Israel fall, not even Obama.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/23/11 at 11:10 pm

RICH   GET A CUP OF HOT WATER   SEE ABOVE

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/24/11 at 7:11 am

Marcia seems to have a bit of a problem staying on subject, or she must be confused by all these liberal websites she spends her time on. This article is about GB, not about GW or BHO. Speaking of GW, you should have heard how GB used to criticize him. But let’s not go there, becuase you seem to have some difficulties grasping some realities.

Comment by Mini on 8/24/11 at 7:29 am

With jews like Rabbi Joshua Levine who needs enemies!
Seems that throughout history one can always kapos willing to aid Israels (jewish people) enemies!!!
The NIF and Jstreet are enemies of the state of Israel!!!

Comment by living in Israel on 8/24/11 at 3:24 pm

It is David Sternlight who spoke earlier about the President. I saw the large Israeli turn-out for Beck’s speech. How many were Israelis and how many were from your Christian friends? Beck spoke about Israeli’s needing courage. You must be courageous to live in a country surrounded by enemies. Mini and Honey, I don’t need you Jewish mothering me, I already have one. She is a religious woman, eats Kosher, attends synagogue regularly, but disapproves of fundamentalist thinking, Christian and Jewish.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/24/11 at 11:42 pm

Marcia: David Sternlight has a sensational track record and widespread international recognition in the defense/intelligence/economics/energy/communications communities. Even more outstanding ,is his reputation for personal integrity and exceptional perception and foresight. On Glenn Beck my organization has received detailed reports (including Egyptian and Lebanese journalists who covered the event). I forwarded their very high valuations of Beck and his performance to Rabbi Grater. Becks enthusiastic audiences were overwhelmingly Israeli. This is been established by exit interviews, ticket distribution, etc.

Comment by LT COL HOWARD on 8/25/11 at 12:33 am

When did Rabbi Meir Kahane (Tzadak) ever proclaim to be moshiach?  This Rabbi is off his rocker!

Comment by Pier on 8/25/11 at 3:40 am

Dear Marci:  No wonder your mother prays so much.  If you were my daughter you wouldn’t be so whinny, buckup up girl.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/25/11 at 7:11 am

Honey Bee, some apples do fall far from the tree.

Comment by Mini, on 8/25/11 at 7:35 am

Take it from a country girl Mini, they are then soon infested with worms.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/25/11 at 10:47 am

LT COL Howard, I appreciate your response and I know David Sternlight and his background. However, I still do not agree with his thinking regarding Glenn Beck or his views on the President.I am not be a PhD in economics, but I have studied history and people, and no amount of discussion will change my mind.  Mini and Honey Bee,
write something of intelligent and meaningful. Use the Colonel’s intelligently written comment as your example.

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/26/11 at 12:54 am

Not trying to change your mind. Only you can do that. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, Distinguishing between the two is what makes a good discussion,

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 1:00 am

I get my facts from newspapers, television, magazines, books and online. I even watch FOX news. Is CNN okay? You interpret news and events in the way your life has unfolded. Why do so many economists, like you, have differing opinions regarding repairing our economy? Wouldn’t you say they have the same facts, so why are there so many answers?

Comment by Marcia Lester on 8/26/11 at 1:56 am

Actually economists don’t all have the same facts; some have opinions or generalizations. I am an econometrician, which means I measure things, use data and mathematical models. I and three other econometricians had unparalleled and consistent forecasting track records. Two of the others were Nobel laureates and professors at Harvard and Wharton; the third a professor at UCLA. I chose an industrial career.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 2:52 am

I honor those three giants: Otto Eckstein, Larry Klein, and Don Ratacjek, later succeeded by the equally good Larry Kimball (UCLA Economic Forecasting Project). I had the honor to count all as friends.

Interestingly, most great American economists are Jewish, though there are significant exceptions. It’s probably something to do with the complex thinking, not unlike the Talmudic rules for interpretation.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 3:05 am

Not to be nationalistic, most of the Austrian School of Economics were also Jewish. In fact about 1/5th of all Nobelists were/are Jewish.

By the way apparently I was mistaken about Eckstein of Harvard being a Nobel Laureate in Economics.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 3:23 am

Aha—I see the problem. “I get my facts from newspapers, television, magazines….” Most of what the media carry are not facts but bias and special pleading, slanted to particular political ends. This has been proven over and over again, not just by Glenn Beck, but also by such unbiased non-partisan academic institutions as the Annenberg Center, by Palestinian Media Watch, Accuracy in Media, Media Research Center. CAMERA, Campus Media Watch, Melanie Phillips, etc. try some of those as sources, not the kind you listed.

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 3:43 am

This stays it all:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0811/glick082611.php3

Comment by David Sternlight on 8/26/11 at 4:38 am

Marcia:  There are so many answers because there are no answers.  Life, my dear, is on big stumble upon!

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/26/11 at 7:20 am

Sternlight—

Your press paranoia underestimates the ability of a person to see through bias, look for core facts and synthesize a reasonable, but open-minded view of the world.

No need to wave the Jewish Nobel flag.  Investment banking and pliticfial criminals were Jewish as well…Millken, Madoff, Abramoff, Bugsy Siegel and more.

Jews also have more than their share of selfish supply side economists who support the dangerous direction our economic and social policy is taking.

Milton Friedman may have changed Mini or Honey Bee’s life but the adoption of his theories by Reagan and his cronies continues to set back our ability to establish a more just society.

Comment by The Logician on 8/26/11 at 8:01 am

Marcia sweetheart, what can a person who writes “no amount of discussion will change my mind” expect (see Marcia’s talkback, 8/26/11, 1:54 am)? I suppose this is the sign of neo-liberalism. Sorry, Marcia, I can deal with your ignorance (despite your vast knowledge which comes from the MSM), but have very little tolerance for your bigotry and hate for people of the Right (same applies to Logician). The fact Col Howard and Mr. Sternlight were treating you with such respect speaks volume about their greatness – uncharacteristic of people on the Right, correct? Admittedly, I am not nearly as big as they are.

Comment by Mini on 8/26/11 at 10:11 am

@LOgician—ditto. Read my response to Marcia.

Comment by Mini on 8/26/11 at 10:12 am

Re;  Dr. Sternlight, everything he says is correct. I 1st met him when he briefed a govt team on a program that was new, revolutionary & highly successful. I was then chief scientist at a major contractor who was a competitor on that specific program. I pointed out to the chairman of our review committee & to the mgt of Dr. S’ s company that my participation would be “a conflict of interest”. The VP of S’s company (a close personal friend) said that he would welcome my presence and it would be no problem for him and his company for me to participate. Dr. Sternlight’s analysis and solutions were brilliant and from there on I closely followed his career, which has been sensational.

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 8/26/11 at 11:00 am

Dr. Sternlight, Thank-you for kind words about my father, he was a defense lawyer so its good you never met him.
Mimi: Marcia and Logician are not worth the effort.

Comment by Honey Bee on 8/26/11 at 3:44 pm

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