COMMENTS

We welcome your feedback. Comments may not exceed 1000 characters.

Privacy Policy

Your information will not be shared or sold without your consent. Get all the details.

Terms of Service

JewishJournal.com has rules for its commenting community.Get all the details.

I think your reaction is justified though overzealous. From a man’s perspective, and having been 14, I can’t think of this in the same way I would if the teacher were male and the student female. Boys are different than girls, the power is different, and although what she did was wrong, her sentence was just.

Comment by anthony on 3/25/10 at 1:35 pm

pretty mouth you got there for being Jewish.

Comment by gonzo on 3/25/10 at 1:35 pm

Woah.  Do you think God wants you to kill her?  I’m almost more scared that these are the values you’re teaching your son.

Comment by H.B. on 3/25/10 at 1:59 pm

What she did was wrong but you are overreacting.  Boys are different than girls. Boys (including myself) dream about hooking up with an attractive teacher when they are 14.

I dont blame people for getting mad but seriously, she did not rape him.

Comment by FRANK on 3/25/10 at 1:59 pm

lucky boy! every male teenager’s dream…

Comment by liberal on 3/25/10 at 2:30 pm

Thank you writing gentleman.
I stick by the article, and my feelings.
Interesting to see your opinions though.

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/25/10 at 2:49 pm

Some of these reactions are a bit off the mark as well and don’t address the issue. On topic: I know my mom would have reacted the same way you are. If my mom had been nonchalant about an incident like this, that would be worrying! We expect mothers to protect their boys,from whatever danger or violation, and in this case it’s warranted. There’s the argument to made that despite what we (men) wanted when we were 14, that doesn’t mean it’s what would have been the best for us.

Comment by anthony on 3/25/10 at 3:10 pm

Oh, shut it. There’s no “abuse” whatsoever happening here. He enjoyed it. She enjoyed it. They were mutually consenting humans engaging in sex. Yeah, it’s weird, but only because he’s 33 and he was 14, but “wrong,” no!

Comment by Mike on 3/25/10 at 4:01 pm

Thanks Anthony.
Whatever Mike.

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/25/10 at 5:13 pm

Men - you can call it what you want but it is rape. The woman is depraved. 

Ilana - it is a great teaching moment for your 14 year old son.  He will meet bad people and knowlege is the best way he can protect himself.

Comment by jane hashash on 3/25/10 at 6:56 pm

Amy Victoria Beck is an unusually penitent and remorseful offender.  I don’t see any good purpose in incarcerating her at all.  And I am unable to respect the mentality of anyone who hates this woman who freely confessed to crimes the police were unaware had even been committed.  At least her husband realizes what an exceptional woman he married, and reportedly will wait for her return from prison.

Comment by Doug Sterling on 3/25/10 at 8:22 pm

It is odd that she confessed. Juxtapose her situation with that of the Wisconsin priest recently revealed to have molested 200 young deaf boys during his earlier years (recent articles on yahoo and google), and it puts this situation into perspective. Regardless, as a teacher she has responsibilities to know where that line is.
A bigger question, and this is getting a bit long to post: Assume for a moment that this 14yo guy doesn’t “think” he’s a victim of abuse. Could the criminal prosecution of this woman create a sense of victimization in him where before there was none? What if he thinks he experienced a beautiful act with another person?

Comment by Anthony on 3/26/10 at 9:32 am

Mike I think you need to “shut up” and start listening to the actual victims of these crimes.

 

Comment by StopTheDenial on 3/27/10 at 3:47 am

I find it funny no one mentioned that if this was a man, he would have gotten much more time.  Now, there are men who don’t, but almost every single woman teacher accused of this gets off very very lightly.  Rape is rape.  Sexual orientation is not an issue and it is sad that it IS an issue.  And Anthony, power is different ? How so?  A man does these things to get his rocks off on a teenage child.  And a woman does because she “loves” him?  Ummm.. yeah… It is like saying, I killed someone for fun, and how I did it menas that I should get less time?  BS… crime is crime… it doesnt matter if she “liked” it or he “liked” it.  She is old, he is a child.

Comment by Joe on 3/28/10 at 10:21 pm

I remember a beautiful teacher I had when I was 14 (52 yrs ago). I wished and fantasized about having sex and making love to this sweet woman for the whole school year, and off and on for several years after. If it had happened, I can’t believe that I would have been traumatized. It would have been a great way to be introduced to the wonderful world of kindness and empathy that can and should accompany sex. Maybe you should meet with some 14 year old boys and get their opinions.

Comment by John Cowan on 3/29/10 at 3:34 am

Ilana you are so conservative and Christian…Outside the western countries ( the Judeo-Christian civilization) a boy of 14 is an adult and has to provide for the family to survive (not to buy Ipads, Buicks and condos in Miami) So it is OK for same sex mariage but not for a woman to have sex with a fully matured boy or for that matter for a human with a tree?

Comment by D'coios on 3/29/10 at 4:35 am

Perhaps it’s just because I grew up in the 70’s and times as regards sexuality as well as so many other things, have changed. Certainly sex is far more dangerous on a physical level, what with AIDS, HPV, herpes, etc.

And I’ve never been a parent, so I have no concept of viewing the potentiality of a son sleeping with an adult from that perspective. But I have been a teenage boy, so I do know a little about that. During my era, sex was quite a casual thing and one that didn’t engender the (to me) strange outrage it does today.

I slept with women who were at least a decade older than me, in their mid-twenties. I was accosted by a sixty something year old man and actually had to use a kitchen knife to escape his home. I was proposistioned by Gay men, who I just thanked for their interest but refused. None of these things have left any emotional scars on me, repressed or otherwise.

From your posting, I can’t tell if somehow this woman forced herself of this young boy, which, male or female, would of course be rape and an entirely different situation. But if not, had it been me as that young boy, it would have just been another sexual encounter, another experience of my callow youth. As for her, she as an adult may have a lot of weird emotional problems and certainly must have been aware of both the law and it’s consequences…that’s her problem. But as a 14 year old boy, aside from having a bunch of adults hassle me, forcing me to testify ( since I was brought up to never talk about what a woman/girl and I did, ie: brag)and insisting on consuling to make me better,I wouldn’t have minded her age one way or another. 

Sorry, as I say, I guess the times, they have a changed.

Comment by chuckterzella on 3/29/10 at 5:05 am

I lean toward the responses of some of the other men.  Boys of 14 fantasize about women of 33.  I was there, I know! 
The real tragedy, here, is that our arbitrary and capricious society sees fit to designate some age before which sex is a crime and after which it is considered wonderful.  People don’t have on-off switches for sexual desire.
What we need is a system in which a “minor” can be taught sex in a wholesome manner.  Yes - sex IS wholesome.  Rape, whether forced or coerced, is not, but the sex act is a wonderful thing and young people should be educated in it, rather than for it to be merely a crime for all involved.

Comment by Bruce on 3/29/10 at 5:25 am

I found your blog through Google News. Your writing is very refreshing, and from the heart.

As for the 33 year old teacher and her 14 year old student, this is happening far too frequently.

A previous comment states, “lucky boy! every male teenager’s dream…”

Answers such as this are extremely shallow. Unfortunately sir, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Until this pervasive social attitude is turned around, the problem will never be totally solved.

Thank you.

Comment by James on 3/29/10 at 8:08 am

I totally agree, Bruce. Consensual sex and statutory rape is turned on its head with an older woman/younger man. And Joe, what I mean by “power” is that a penis and a vagina have different connotations; a penis enters, a vagina accepts, etc, etc. Although this is a bit theoretical, it’s an underlying foundation in much of society’s sexual politics and is a reason female “perpetrators” in cases like this are given lighter sentences, because there’s the understanding (from most men, evident from this discussion) that it was the 14yo boys objective anyway.

Comment by Anthony on 3/29/10 at 10:24 am

Are you tell me, that a girl of 14 doesn’t imagine sex with an older man?  When I was in school, we had several “hot” male teachers that the girls would drool over and wear certain types of clothes to get the attention of the men.  So you mean to tell me that if the girl chooses to have sex with a 33 year old teacher then it is acceptable, if that is her “objective?” come on…  And for the one who takes about our society not being with the rest of the world about same sex marriage or sex with a “tree??”  You are comparing two same sex partners of LEGAL AGE to RAPE OF A CHILD?  Are you nuts?  And before you rip on America and its laws, not ALL of AMERICA are CHRISTIAN.  We are a country of many beliefs all of which have to follow the LAW. 

It is funny if you go over to middle eastern country or India with my WIFE and we KISS then I can go to JAIL (DUBAI).  Yeah… real open about things.  But we are talking about one adult who knows the law and should know the boundries to a child.  Not an older man to a younger woman or an older woman with a younger man.

Comment by Joe on 3/29/10 at 12:55 pm

Thank you all for reading and writing.
I can’t respond to all the comments, but I am reading them.
I am frightened, entertained, and appalled by the messages.
Thanks again for taking the tine to share.

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/29/10 at 1:55 pm

Dear Ms. Angel,

You write well and with a good soul.  Many of us feel complete revulsion when we read of these things and worse.

My men’s group at church, meeting at 6:00 AM each Wednesday morning - the only time we don’t have work or family conflicts with our schedules - we have wondered out loud for over six years how we can help the world and “what can we do to stop all this stuff”.

We do the things we can for our family, our friends, our neighbors and the towns we live in to the best of our ability but, the way the world is careening towards the “cliff” scares even the strongest men of faith among us.

Be well, God bless and keep up the good works.

Comment by walkerrussellc on 3/29/10 at 2:29 pm

Here’s the problem; “age of consent” varies by state and by country. In some US states, 14 is legal to marry (with permission of parents). A clear delineation needs to be made between the moral offense and the societal offense.

Ilana, I can understand and accept your moral outrage. I just don’t agree with it. To put this into perspective, you recently said something similar about judging Sarah Palin as a person as opposed to judging her as a politician. Here you have a case of morals versus societal norms. Though many Americans find sex at the age of 14 to be morally repugnant, historically (and globally) speaking, 14 has been considered mature for centuries.

Now, on the charge of rape, we have to look at the circumstances before applying the term to the crime. /Did/ a rape occur? Was one of the parties unwilling, or as you seem to suggest, unable to make a distinction between right and wrong? Those are the aspects which speak to the moral part of the crime. All we know about the crime is that she had sex and oral sex (over the course of six months) with a person under the age of 16, which is considered illegal in the state of California. No other judgments about the incident can be made yet.

As far as her sentencing goes, it appears that she’ll actually serve about one year in prison with four additional years of probation. From what I’ve read, the worst she was liable to receive was about seven total years. Given that she’s married, has a family, no prior offenses, and freely turned herself in, the punishment _seems_ to fit the crime.

Note, clearly and unequivocally, I’m not defending her behavior. I’m stating that moral outrage needs to be tempered with logic and reason and facts.

Comment by J. on 3/29/10 at 2:29 pm

To J. ~

Logic—Girls of 14 and boys of 14 are both highly vulnerable, and that’s why the laws that constitute age of adult consent were created. Their minds are not mature, and they can easily be manipulated.

Facts—The teacher broke the law.

Reason—If you consider logic and facts, you must come to the conclusion that the action of the teacher was wrong, and deserving of punishment.

In addition to all of the above, a teacher, whatever the age, has a responsibility to look out for the welfare of her charges. This teacher decided not to heed that important responsibility. The court should have thrown the book at her.

Thanks,
James

Comment by James on 3/29/10 at 3:21 pm

I will neither elaborate nor try to justify my thinking; I’ll just leave my opinion.
No crime has been committed. If the act was illega, the law is wrong.
The teacher did not “rape” the boy.
If she doesn’t get pregnant nor gave the boy an STD, she did not harm him in any way.
Sex is not wrong, not harmful, not a “sin”. Sex is life and health.

Comment by A Takshe on 3/29/10 at 4:24 pm

A Takshe… wow…  Since you sound like a free spirit and guru since you believe that Sex is not wrong, not harmful, not a “sin”. Sex is life and health.

How about this one… Karma… lets hope that comment doesn’t bite you in the butt when this happens to one of your children little boy or little girl.  You wouldn’t be sayins sex is life and health… I wonder how many boys and girls are raped and killed when they first thought the person they found online “loved” them.  wow… reading some of these comments means our country truly is in trouble if we justify rape of a child per our countries laws….

Comment by Joe on 3/30/10 at 12:58 am

Ilana… you forgot to mention this woman is married and has three children of her own… all of which are UNDER 18.  This makes it even worse.  She is 33.  Assuming her first child was born at 18, her oldest would be 15….. what a sick person… her other two children are younger than that.  Also, her husband is a police officer.. and plans to take her back… these kids deserve better parents. 

If this was a man, his kids would have been taken away from him.  But I guess she is reaaaaalllly sorry so it is ok… (sarcasm)

Comment by Joe on 3/30/10 at 1:10 am

I do have one more thing to add, it’s off topic in a way, but notable noetheless…

This is one of the few “threads” I’ve read that hasn’t de-volved into name calling. insults and rage. Kudos to evryone who has posted here for either agreeing or disagreeing without rancor. That, at least, is refreshing.

Comment by Chuckterzella on 3/30/10 at 8:06 am

Laws and logic are often qualitative, and we have to make sure that the essence of law is upheld. I think Joe missed my point about sexual politics: We’d all agree that a similar case with a 14yo girl and a 33yo male teacher WOULD be treated differently because of our perception of sex in our society. Sex is thought of as a rite of passage for a young man, a loss of innocence in a young woman.

When I have a son (knock on wood), my interest will be to protect his dignity and raise him with a strong foundation for adulthood. Were he at 14 to find himself in a situation like this case, my interest would be to understand and listen to his feelings (which in this case, it was noted before, none of us are privy to). Critical to my reaction would be my son’s perception of what happened. Were he to think he was abused, taken advantage of, etc, I would be first in line to see that justice be fairly administered. But were he to think he’d experienced something special, something healthy, and something natural, I feel it would be remiss (and even irresponsible) of me to shout for his teacher to be dragged through the street. What message would that send to my son? A young man walking into adulthood? Sex is wrong? The positive feelings he expressed about his experience with his partner were “wrong”? He is a “victim”?
What’s preventing us from reaching a clear consensus is the human element of this case, which we are each filling in on our own between the lines.

Comment by Anthony on 3/30/10 at 8:54 am

This is more than just being about sex.  Sex is the least important part of this story.  It is a about a grown woman, who is paid to teach and mold our children, abusing her power.  14 year old boys want to have sex.  I get it. But to think of this woman simply having sex with this child, is not the issue.  She was his teacher.  She was in a position of power,  She manipulated a situation.  That is the core of this story, and for that reason alone, she was not punished appropriately.  I stick by my article.  She is a rapist.

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/30/10 at 9:03 am

@ Joe:
Your vision of what sex represents is certainly different than mine. I will let Anthony’s comments speak for me - I agree with almost everything he said.

@ Ilana:
You say:
“This is more than just being about sex.  Sex is the least important part of this story”.
Then you say:
“She is a rapist.”
Let me ask you respectfully: don’t you think you are letting the emotion speak too loud and, as a consequence, contradicting yourself?

Comment by A Taksche on 3/30/10 at 11:33 am

A Taksche,

Rape has nothing to do with sex.  Rape is about power and manipulation.  I was not being emotional, and I did not contradict myself.  He is a child, driven by hormones, and she abused her power and manipulated a child. 

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/30/10 at 12:50 pm

Ilana,

You write:
“Rape has nothing to do with sex.  Rape is about power and manipulation.”

That is quite a broad definition of rape. It would be difficult to write and enforce precise laws based on such definition. You see, “power” and “manipulation” includes practically all political acts…

Now, a question (to everybody, not only to Ilana) just to frame the discussion a little better: what harm, exactly, was done to the boy? Again, this question is just to frame the discussion.

(Of course, if somebody tells me my suggestions are not welcome in this forum, I’ll just go away. I don’t like to polemicize just for the sake of it. I want to educate myself about the ideas of others.)

Comment by A Taksche on 3/30/10 at 1:03 pm

I am just a writer, and do not think I am qualified, or interested, in defining what rape is.  As for what harm was done to the boy, I think I have expressed my opinion, and I welcome you all to discuss the topic.  I’m finding all of your comments to be quite interesting.

I will say, that when you have a child, the situation provides you with a different perspective.  I’m wondering, A Taksche, are you male or female?  There seems to be a division between the sexes on this one.

Ilana

Comment by Ilana Angel on 3/30/10 at 1:26 pm

I think what Taksche is pointing at, Ilana, and what I’ve mentioned, is that laws should be beholden to the essence for which they were passed. There is a very rigid definition of rape, which most states define as “forcible sexual relations with a person against that person’s will”. There’s an understanding that minors are unable to give their consent, and so such cases are also categorized as rape. We have to agree that the essence of the law is to protect children, and looking at the larger picture, it’s understandable (to me) why prosecutors in this case did not pursue more heavy prison time.
Is anyone familiar with Jerry Lee Lewis?

Comment by Anthony on 3/30/10 at 3:10 pm

Short one first:

@ Anthony:
I agree with what you say. The only thing I have to add can be inferred from my comment back to Ilana, right below.

Now the long one:

@ Ilana:

You write:
“I’m wondering, A Taksche, are you male or female?  There seems to be a division between the sexes on this one.”

Hmmm… The distinction between the sexes/genders. That *is* a very important point because, no matter what the currently fashionable thing to say is, women and men are different in perception, behaviour, reactions, psychological aspects, physical aspects, etc. (Please let me make it clear that I am *NOT* putting either above the other!)

My main point is: I think it is *extremely* difficult to say that a female raped a male in any meaningful way. Anthony already mentioned that asymmetry in one of his posts (“penis invades, vagina accepts”, etc). That’s just how it works - plain biology, with all its implications. Intercourse between two “normal” and functional people of opposite genders in a situation where no violence, coercion or deception occurred is a natural thing.

Four points come to my mind, though, that might deserve attention:
1) Sex resulting in unwanted pregnancy;
2) Sex resulting in the communication of disease;
3) Sex resulting from violence (true “rape”, for short);
4) Sex with a person mentally unfit to decide (I fail to remember the legal name for such a person).

From what I saw on the news, none of 1, 2 or 3 apply. So, let’s see #4.
In this particular story, one could argue that the boy is “mentally unfit”, or at least not mature enough, to understand what the “big” meaning of sex is and, therefore, he was harmed. Well, I don’t think that, even so, he would have been harmed. If he wasn’t able to “understand the meaning of sex”, it was just another physical activity, another step in his discovery of his own biological functions. It is up to society, maybe, not to label him (nor the teacher!) as victim (or criminal), so that the two of them will go about their lives as usual. Any results - if any - of their intercourse would be matters to be discussed only inside or between their families (at most).

And finally, if I were to take any disciplinary action against the teacher, it would be *at most* firing her - *nothing* else - for using the school premises in a manner inconsistent with their purpose, or something like that. Purely an administrative penalty. No need to specifically mention sex-related activity.

Ah, and to answer your question: I am a male.

Sorry for the long comment. This is a subject that can fill volumes and I wanted to be as thorough as possible in this relatively small space…

Comment by A Taschke on 3/30/10 at 4:00 pm

Folks,

Just to thank you for the opportunity to have an intelligent discussion.
I think I have said most of I had to say, and I hope I have contributed somehow.

See you next time.

Comment by A Taksche on 3/30/10 at 4:47 pm

My god, you are so ignorant. My brother goes to school there and she was his teacher this year. You are making her out to be what she’s not. And by the way, there is no way a female teacher and damage a TEENAGE boy emotionally. This kid is getting high fives at school now. You people into religion are so close-minded, get out of that box!

Comment by Evelyn Valdivieso on 3/30/10 at 10:54 pm

I think it’s important to understand that there isn’t a clear-cut, black and white, one size fits all rule that can determine whether abuse has been committed. There is no question she broke the student/teacher boundary, that isn’t in question. But the essence of the law is of the utmost importance, and unfortunately none of us are close enough to the case to see those important implications that are critical to that judgement. My guess is the guy (who’s 15 now) is fine, although the media attention is probably intrusive. Is the woman in this case a real “sex offender”? I would find it difficult to fathom if we can’t draw a distinction (as a society) between this woman and some guy at a park trying to give candy to children to try and touch them. There is a difference, and the punishment should fit the crime, if a crime has been committed.

I’ve also found this discussion interesting and appreciate the professionalism. Thanks again!

Comment by Anthony on 3/31/10 at 9:31 am

According to Judaism, a relationship between a 14 year old boy or girl and an older person is permitted, and for millennia Jews of those ages sometimes married and had sex, approved by their communities. Gluckl of Hameln is an example - she got married at 14. Judaism sets minimum ages at 12 for girls and 13 for boys.

I think California’s high age of consent of 18 is ridiculous, and should be somewhere between 13 and 16. That being said, I support keeping penalties against teachers who have sex with students that they directly teach or supervise. In my state, sex is lawful with 16 year olds except if you’re a teacher or coach or have some other kind of authority over your teenage partner. Ilana is correct that the teacher abused her power.

Comment by K. B. on 3/31/10 at 8:27 pm

“Judaism sets minimum ages at 12 for girls and 13 for boys.”

Correct.  Our society insists on treating young adults as children.  Admiral David Farragut joined the US Navy when he was 9, and commanded his first ship at the age of 12.  Times have changed, and not entirely for the better. 

Any teacher with such poor judgment should certainly have their license to teach revoked.  But Amy Beck of course resigned her teaching job before anyone knew why. 

Absent force or fraud what Amy Beck did does not meet my concept of criminal conduct.  And even if it did, she is an unusually penitent and remorseful offender.  If I was the sentencing judge I would suspend the sentence and send her home to her husband and children.

Comment by Doug Sterling on 3/31/10 at 10:13 pm

Ok I don’t really know when this was all posted but I’m 14 and I read.  Every post. I think the woman did abuse her power as a teacher but if the boy was willing (and yes we fantasize about this kind of stuff all the time)then I think the punishment was very suitable to what it is.  Also, I think that a certain test should be created to see if young men at my age are sexually and mentally mature for things like this. Idk about girls (cuz I don’t really know all the details and such) but if the boys pass I think the age of (sexual consent I think its called?) Should be lowered.

Comment by Trent on 11/09/10 at 7:28 pm

Trent, would that there were a “maturity test”, sexual or otherwise… it would help us avoid ALL sorts of problems. But if you are indeed a 14 year old boy( which I somehow kind of doubt), I don’t think you’d pass it. It’s the same in the office, the Army, and every other situation where there is someone in control and someone under that control… You just don’t sleep with the “employee”. The fact that this teacher did pretty much proves she wouldn’t have scored very highly on the old “maturity test” either

Comment by Chuckterzella on 11/21/10 at 1:24 pm

Post a Comment

Name:
Email:

Type the word you see below:

Comment:

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

About this Blog

Blog Home
About the Blogger(s)
Contact

Blog Archive

• By Month
• Categories

• By Month
• Categories