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Shanda…the children will be Goyim no matter how you slice this.  The Tallit is a joke and affront to real Jews, not a Jew-in-name-only like this Mezvinsky.  By the time the grandchildren come around almost all vestiges of their Jewish heritage will be forgotten and by the 5 or 6 generation they will have become our enemies with every last remnant of their Jewish heritage obliterated from their memory.  If Ivanka Trump can convert, so can this miese shiksa who has a whoremaster for a father and an anti-Semite for a mother.  Shanda, Shanda, Shanda

Comment by WashingtonHtsGirl on 7/31/10 at 9:57 pm

Chelsea looks beautiful & radiant—her dress & veil & hair—just gorgeous! What a stunning day & setting for her wedding.
In the photos of guests waiting to be driven to the site, none looked familiar. How nice it seems it really was an event for Chelsea & Mark & friends.
How hard it must have been to grow up in the public eye and always, always, Chelsea has shown such grace. A truly lovely, smart girl.

Comment by Leslie on 7/31/10 at 10:12 pm

Chelsea Clinton and Chelsea Clinton finally married, they are all my idols, they were both looking at such a large wedding, family photos so happy, I’m really happy, I hope my idol always happy

Comment by health & diet on 8/01/10 at 1:57 am

Wow! Washington hts girl..such hateful things you say.  Is that what God teaches us, to hate and judge.  I too, live in Washington Hts but I am happy I don’t know you.  We are all on this planet together so for you to think you are above all others is such a shame.  I will pray for you so that the hate in your heart fades away.
Ilana, what you wrote towards the end is so so true..follow your heart, especially if it is one filled w/love, not hate and judgement!

Comment by irene on 8/01/10 at 4:20 am

This truly is a shanda. Flaunting the Jewish aspects of this wedding and bringing out a rent-a-rabbi is a mockery. This was not a wedding between two Jews. Her husband and family should be ashamed of themselves.

Comment by David K on 8/01/10 at 7:19 am

As a Christian, I wondered if she had converted to Judiasm.  I feel it is SO IMPORTANT to raise their children in both faiths, as having a parent of each faith is who they are.  As a Christian, we feel knowing Jesus is important, but there are aspects of the Jewish faith that are important as well.  I say raise them in both and let them choose as adults which path they will follow.

Comment by Kelly on 8/01/10 at 8:04 am

Ilana,great comments, it’s true, if you are lucky enough to find love, real love, you should grab it and hold on tight!  I’d like to ask, has anything been said in public that the children of this marriage won’t be raised in the Jewish faith?  It is possible for a Christian to marry a Jew and raise the children as Jews. The hateful comments show why this world is in the shape it’s in, thank goodness for people like Chelsea Clinton and her new husband who can look past these boundaries and love each other. As for Washington Hts, I think she’s pretty sad and bigoted. Once again, because people are different there’s no tolerance.

Comment by ann on 8/01/10 at 9:37 am

Ann,you are so right about the hateful comments being a reflection of why this world is where it is today..no tolerance for people and their differences.  Washington Hts girl was raised to think this way and sad thing is her children will be as well.  Peace…

Comment by irene on 8/01/10 at 10:30 am

So, all goyim are against Jews? Interesting take. Given Jews are such a small percentage of the American population, that must mean that Jews run this country. If not, it must mean that people of other faiths and backgrounds love Jews and support them.

I resent being told that as a non Jew, I must “Hate”. Who the hell do you think you are?

Yes Ilana, anti semetism is alive and well as is Jewish intolerance other others.

Comment by twinkle on 8/01/10 at 10:37 am

I was going to comment on Ilana’s blog but I saw the hateful comments her readers directed at non-Jews and it is not worth it.  I wish you all well and am not your enemy but am deeply disturbed that you would see it that way…

Comment by LC on 8/01/10 at 10:39 am

Ok so as a Christian (that is even my maiden name),I admit I do not know much about the Jewish faith or customs, but maybe the aspects of his faith that were included in the ceremony were to acknowledge his upbringing and and his heretige?  I think it was nice, and I hope their marriage is as joyful as the wedding seems to have been.

Comment by tracy on 8/01/10 at 10:41 am

Man I knew Chelsea was ugly. However, by marrying a Jew, she is going to ensure another ugly generation of Clintons. Mezvinsky is another ugly, plain, geeky Jew.

She could have gone for a blue-blood with her connections. But marrying a lower-end ethnic Kazar Jew shows she prefers breeding with peasant stock. Yuck!!!

Comment by Stop Up And Play on 8/01/10 at 10:52 am

Actually, I’m also extremely disturbed by ‘Stop Up and Play.’  Ignorance and intolerance is just ugly in any form, religion, culture, or ethnicity and uncalled for.

Comment by LC on 8/01/10 at 11:21 am

@ Washington:  You should be ashamed of yourself.  I am embarrassed for you that you felt, on any level, that your comment was appropriate.  You are full of hate and it is heartbreaking.

@ Leslie.  I also think she looked beautiful and so very happy.

@ Ann:  Great comment.  In the Jewish faith, the religion of the mother is passed down to the children.  So even if they were raising their kids Jewish,  the kids would not be Jewish as the mother is not.  They could define themselves as Jews, and live Jewish lives, but Jewish law would not recognize them as such.  It’s sounds silly I suppose, but it’s tradition.

@ Irene:  Where is Washington heights?  Thanks for speaking up and not allowing your neighborhood to be represented by this woman.  I am praying for her too.

@ Health and Diet:  Thanks for commenting.

@ David:  It’s just odd to me that they are touting it as a Jewish wedding when she is in fact, not Jewish.

@ Kelly:  I agree in theory, but it’s hard.  The families who are able to present both faiths in great ways have my admiration.

@ Twinkle:  It’s so sad.  It is heartbreaking that there is so much hate.  Americans judge the world for hate, when we need to look at ourselves.  The comment from Washington is a painful reminder of what is happening right here at home.

@ LC:  The comments of readers are not reflective of me, or the greater Jewish population.  Thank you for reading and taking the time to comment.

@ Tracy:  I think it was nice too.  Everyone looked so happy.

@ Stop:  Really?  Truly a disgusting and shameful comment.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/01/10 at 11:36 am

I’m reading over these comments and I am sad.  For all of us.  To Washington and Stop, know that I posted your comments to show the hate that is directed to people for no reason.  I will not however, post any additional comments from either of you.  Take your hate and share it somewhere else.  It is fascinating to me that the hate is so deep, and from one Jew and one Gentile.  What will become of the world for my son?  Shame on you both.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/01/10 at 11:39 am

Dear Ilana,
    Thanks for responding and not allowing any more hateful comments to post.  I do not believe the majority of people feel that way. 
Washington Heights is on the far Upper Westside of Manhattan, NYC.  It is an ethnically diverse neighborhood, a melting pot. Yeshiva University is located here as well.  There is also a large population of Orthodox Jews and I suspect that’s where Washington Heights girl comes from.  It is what it is: sad.  We do not have to agree with it.  We need to stand together in love and peace..that’s all.

Comment by irene on 8/01/10 at 11:47 am

Ilana.

Thank you for posting my comment. I was not going to read your blog again so it delighted me to see that you do not in fact fall in line with comments made by both “washington” and “stop”.

Both are hateful and irrational.

I do not worry for my son. I know Most people do not fall into either of these camps…which by the way, actually puts both these intolerant individuals on the same side of the divide.

So…Washington and Stop…stay in your own playground together and allow the rest of us to honor, respect and find richness in the cultures and differences of others.

Comment by twinkle on 8/01/10 at 1:01 pm

Ilana, I don’t attribute nonsense to you, your readers or commenters.  The responsibility for such antiquated or narrow views are strictly those that pose them.

Comment by LC on 8/01/10 at 2:30 pm

I do not see a problem here.  I don’t know if Chelsea is religeous or if it matters to her at all.  I do know that most truly devout Christians (myself included) consider themselves Jewish as they serve the Jewish God, Jehovah (Yahweh).  The only major difference is the Christians belief in Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah, who was Jewish.  From what I have seen, Christians today openly accept, support and love Jewish people.  It seems to me that there aren’t a lot of Jewish people who are willing to return the favor.  Hopefully that will change one day as Jewish people realize that true Christians stand shoulder to shoulder with Jews against those who would like to see the demise of both religeons.

Comment by Micah Dooley on 8/01/10 at 2:37 pm

Thank you Micah!

Especially the Orthodox Christian sects have always gotten that most original Christians were Jews.

They will not celebrate their Easter until after the Passover…usually referred to in the country as Greek Easter. It’s the same date each year for all the Orthodoxies…the Sunday after whenever the Passover falls.

Comment by twinkle on 8/01/10 at 3:24 pm

I appreciate Ilana’s posting this article, as well as her attempt to assure civil discourse in the commentaries.

I would like to explain why the Clinton-Mezvinsky marriage is upsetting. It upsets me because it is an intermarriage. Period. They might be nice people, in love with one another and respectful of each other’s religion. Perhaps they are intent on raising their kids in both religions. The bottom line, though, is this: If every Jew married out of the faith, as Marc did, Jews and Judaism would disappear. Jews who care passionately about the future of our own Jewish families and about the future of Judaism must take personal responsibility by our own actions to assure that Judaism continues. We do that by marrying Jews and by raising Jewish children in strong and loving Jewish homes, with strong Jewish experiences: synagogue, school, social activities, groups, summer camp, neighhborhood, JCCs, etc. The children then will understand, implicitly and explicitly, why Judaism is important to their parents and grandparents, and they will want to invest the same efforts in creating Jewish homes for their children, too. Indeed, they would never dream of doing otherwise. It takes work and commitment, but it’s the only way for the long-term survival of the Jewish people. Think of just one person’s opting out of Judaism: The implications for that person’s descendants are ever-lasting. THAT is the danger of intermarriage.

It is why I do not attend intermarriages. Marriages are to be celebrated, but there’s nothing about intermarriages (more specifically, nothing about the implications of intermarriages) that I can celebrate. Instead, they are self-inflicted wounds that we are committing against ourselves, our ancestors and the Jewish people.

It is hard enough in a great country like America, and in other open societies, for Jews to remain Jewish. Similarly, it is hard—with every passing generation, and with every generation that an immigrant group is removed from the ties of “the old country”—for any ethnic group in any religion to maintain its traditions and culture. The problem for we as Jews is that our numbers are so small to begin with that we cannot afford to lose anybody. When we marry out, we make an already-challenging situation impossible. For that reason, I do not understand how other Jews (including some of those in Ilana’s column) can believe that intermarriage is okay.

The best way to keep the faith is ... to keep the faith.

Comment by HK on 8/01/10 at 4:00 pm

I’m going to quickly say this and then I’m out. 
HK, is it OK for you to judge everyone based upon your beliefs and find those that do not comply wanting and unworthy?
What works for you may not work for all but you would put your beliefs onto others?  Isn’t this where most of the friction throughout the ages has begun and in many cases full out genocide?  With that willingness to ‘force beliefs upon others’ instead of recognizing what is unique and similar between us as humans?

Comment by on 8/01/10 at 4:10 pm

To HK: You are so close minded…perhaps you should move to a place where only Jews exist and no one else.  I am rendered speechless by your comments..OY!!!

Comment by irene on 8/01/10 at 4:13 pm

HK,
PS-don’t worry, I doubt that anyone will invite you to their interfaith marriage.  You sound like you are living on another planet..how can you be so against a marriage where 2 people love eachother and will raise children w/love??

Comment by irene on 8/01/10 at 4:28 pm

@ HK:  With all due respect, are you kidding?  Your words, while polite and articulate, are bigoted and racist.  Who are you to judge people?  For you to not attend an interfaith wedding seems quite extreme.  If they care you enough to invite you to share in their mitzvah, and for you to not go, is rude.

Furthermore, when you say what is wrong with the Chelsea/Marc wedding, you need to clarify that you are speaking for yourself, not all Jews.  While I get what you are saying, it’s unfortunate that you stated your position from such a hurtful and mean perspective.

My opinion on interfaith marriage, is my own.  It is not what I want for myself, but if I fall in love and he is not Jewish, I will permit myself to love him because I am secure in my faith.

Perhaps rethink your tone and try again.  Instead of explaining yourself, you look like a militant Jew and that is a shame.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/01/10 at 4:49 pm

my son minored in philososhy at boston university, with that he studied all kinds of religions. with that said i wish i could get him to comment on this can of worms…

1.Christianity: 2.1 billion

2.Islam: 1.5 billion

3.Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

4.Hinduism: 900 million

5.Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

6.Buddhism: 376 million

7.primal-indigenous: 300 million

8.African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

9.Sikhism: 23 million

10.Juche: 19 million

11.Spiritism: 15 million

12.Judaism: 14 million

13.Baha’i: 7 million

14.Jainism: 4.2 million

15.Shinto: 4 million

16.Cao Dai: 4 million

17.Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

18.Tenrikyo: 2 million

19.Neo-Paganism: 1 million

20.Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

21.Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

22.Scientology: 500 thousand

can’t we all just get along…

i’m just wondering…
(o.m.g.)

ilana, you don’t have to print this—
not sure if it would be gas on the fire or stirring the pot to share this list with other.
i enjoy your comments, blog and/or stories—
it’s the shared comments from all the other people, that are sent to you, that scare the bejeebers out of me.

Comment by zero milligrams (o.m.g.) on 8/01/10 at 6:40 pm

nice thread killer.

Comment by Leslie on 8/02/10 at 12:13 pm

Chelsea looked so beautiful and Marc very handsome. She’s an only child and if the parents can afford to give her an almost 3-5 million dollar wedding, so be it.I just read that Chelsea received some plastic surgery on her nose and upper gums. Whether it’s true or not she still looked stunning. Can’t go wrong with Vera Wang..

Comment by emm on 8/02/10 at 1:07 pm

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COMMENT OR COMMENTS FROM PRESENT DAY GRANDCHILDREN OF INTERMARRIED COUPLES ON THIS SUBJECT.

Comment by meyer ben tzvi on 8/02/10 at 4:23 pm

There is a good reason that 75% percent of Jews marry outside of their religion, it is because they feel that love is more important than Judaism. Despite the loss of millions of Jews to the forces of love, millions more are created by orthodox Jewery.

Comment by morris wise on 8/02/10 at 4:55 pm

I would like to see the Reform movement take a solid stance forbidding their rabbis from performing intermarriages. Both the Conservative and Orthodox movements have such a policy, and no wonder both of these movements do not accept Reform conversions. Rather than dictate their secular standards on the Israel population concerning the recent “Conversion Bill” the Reform movement should do its own house cleaning first.

Comment by Dr David Edwards on 8/02/10 at 7:45 pm

Dr. Edwards,

I respectfully disagree.  Jews are going to marry outside their faith.  It’s simply going to happen, and nothing will change that.  Someone can feel connected to their faith so strongly, that love can be found with someone outside their faith.

I am hoping to marry a Jew.  I am hoping my son marries a Jew.  That said, if either one of us is blessed to find love, that love will trump faith.  I am a Jew.  My son is a Jew.  We practice our faith, and nothing will change that, not even who we marry.

If he were to marry a woman of another faith, I would be devastated to not have a Rabbi there, participating in the ceremony.  It is not ideal, but I would take that over no Jewish clergy able to participate at all.

Not being able to have an interfaith marriage, would be punishing Jews for falling in love, and that is not right.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/02/10 at 8:20 pm

I still cannot believe these oh so strong feelings against interfaith marriages.  It sounds like the same craziness/hatred born out of white supremacy..religious fanaticism has never led to peace on this earth..it causes seperation and judgement, wars and death!  I understand wanting to preserve faith and cultutre but that can surely be done without making it so US VS THEM.  I truly do not think God would condone this type of thinking..it is from the Dark Ages and only perpetuates conflict that is already rampant in this world. We need to embrace and respect eachothers differences.

Comment by irene on 8/03/10 at 4:43 am

Irene,  it;s fascinating right?  I’m truly surprised by the level of hate, especially from Jews against other Jews.  For someone to say Rabbis should never be allowed to do inter-faith marriages is mind boggling to me.  I don’t know what God would condone, but what I am certain of, is that he must be disappointed that at the core, the world is driven by hate. It must break his heart.  At what point does the world learn from it’s mistakes and stop repeating the dark pages of our history?

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/03/10 at 6:27 am

This is obviously a genetic thing.  My father has a thing for redhead women and so do I. The Clinton’s attraction is wrapped in the genome for the Kosher flavor of people that name’s begin with “M”.  Marc is an attractive MOT and so was her dad’s sexy Jewish girlfriend Monica. 

The bummer for us guys is that we either need to pull in from the outside and convert them… and if we do…do we have to spend 250+50 a week a year for the orthodox dipping or can we just take them to conservative splash for a couple month course?  Or better, the Reformed course where you just say your Jewish and may or may not even need the Mikvah? 

However, women get to marry whomever they want and they get Jewish kids… talk about a sexist religion, so what if they can’t be an orthodox rabbi, what would most woman want, jewish kids or to be orthodox rabbits?

However, I understand the benefits of a Jewish mother, and that’s also why I understand the plight of the suffering Jew.  But what is is to grow up as a Jewish male without having a Kosher father to sit with you in shul and show you how to put on teffillin?

Comment by KJ on 8/03/10 at 8:50 am

Ilana,
    It saddens me…don’t people see that this is the same belief system that has ignited so many genocide movements these past 20+ years, Yugoslovia, Rwanda, Sudan and many others.  It just echos the past and it so frightens me..this is 2010, People, what are you thinking??!!

Comment by irene on 8/03/10 at 9:22 am

To all who are attacking washington hts girl, unfortunately you see it as hate from her but you are all wrong because what she is saying is basicaly the true laws of the bible that a jewish male who marries a non jewish female the children are not considered jewish whe the opposite happens that she is jewish and he is not jewish their children are considered jewish according to Torah, now since Marc is jewish and Chelsea is not their children will not be considered jewish and no matter if they will practice the jewish religion or not, unfortunately another jewish child is lost and many jewish children will be lost in their future generations due to intermarriage this has nothing to do with hate, this young man should’ve stuck to his roots not mary a non jewish girl.

Comment by louie on 8/03/10 at 10:33 am

Well, it’s very sad to all the Jewish people being so narrow minded. Non-Jewish children can be converted at birth, if they have decided to have children and to raise them Jewish.  No wonder we are diminishing in numbers.  And now Israel want’s to prevent Jewish converts who didn’t convert through an Orthodox Rabbi’s to be unable to make Aliyah to Israel, and aren’t considered Jewish.  What about Ruth in the Bible.  We didn’t hate her, did we?  I was brought up conservative, my husband is Jewish. Both my parents, and all of my grandparents were Jewish, and came over from Easter Europe.  We’ve had intermarriage in the family, and I don’t want my grandchildren who were converted at birth by a Reform Rabbi to be considered non-Jewish.  I’m not sure I shouldn’t start giving my Jewish Federation Foundation to other charitable causes, and retract my life time membership to Hadassah.  This is embarrassing.  I guess the narrow minded people on this sight would have preferred a minister only, and to have Marc become Methodist. Another person lost to Judaism.  We are our own worst enemy.  To those non-Jews on this sight, please accept my apology. Not everyone is like the above people.  I don’t consider myself superior nor inferior.  I don’t want people to attempt to convert me, and we aren’t allowed to go out and convert others.  They have to come to the Rabbi and ask to be converted, and they are turned down three times.  If they still want to convert, they study Judaism in order to begin the conversion process.

Comment by Andi on 8/03/10 at 10:47 am

Louie, the problem is not the Jewish law that Washington heights is quoting it is that in her mind ‘all progeny will become enemies’ as all non-Jews are.  That is what is so very offensive to everyone.

Comment by LC on 8/03/10 at 11:37 am

What is so interesting to me, is that they felt the need to release pictures that were steeped in Jewish tradition.  I think it’s hypocritical to release pictures showing that you had these traditions at your wedding, when your wife is not Jewish.  Great that she embraced his faith in the way, but their kids will not be Jewish, so why the big push?  If they had simply released a picture of them together, it would never have been a topic of conversation really. 

This blog is about my search for love, and my connection to my faith.  I feel strongly that my son should marry a Jew.  That said,  if my son could choose between a Jewish girl he liked a lot, and a Christian he loved, then I would want him to be with the Christian.  That does not make me a bad Jew, that makes me a good mother.

The comments here are hate driven and there is no denying that.  It paints a sad picture for Jews in my opinion.  We are asking the world to accept us, yet we fight amongst ourselves.  If we cannot find peace within the different levels of observance, then how will ever peace ever?  Just because I am reform, and someone else is Orthodox, that does not make them a better Jew than me.

Until Jews can unite as a people, the future is bleak.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/03/10 at 11:48 am

I guess I look at it slightly differently.  In my mind, I wonder if they released the pictures showing his identity to Judaism to show the people who were expressing concern that only a minister would perform the ceremony, and he would give up his religion.  Perhaps, and this is wishful thinking, it also meant they do intend to raise children in the Jewish religion.  I do know that I have read the Clinton’s have always celebrated Passover at their house.  I’m sure some Orthodox person will now comment that you can’t have non-Jews at your Passover ceremony (some think that), but we have Passover every year with dear friends, who the husband went to the Yeshiva for several years, and they invite non-Jews. Thanks.

Comment by Andi on 8/03/10 at 12:04 pm

Ilana, because you are Reform, since 1983 you might believe that if their children are raised and educated as Jews, it suffices that Marc is Jewish for them to be Jewish.  Including these traditions in their wedding may indicate their intentions about how they will raise and educate their children.

Comment by David on 8/03/10 at 4:50 pm

David, 

It is irrelevant whether I am Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox.  What I am is Jewish, and that is all that matters.  If I am Conservative, and should my Conservative Jewish son want to marry a girl who is Reform, will I complain that she is not Jewish enough?  Jews are critical of each other, far more than non-Jews are of us.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/03/10 at 5:42 pm

Andi,  For me the holidays are a time to celebrate and observe in the same way my ancestors have throughout history.  I welcome everyone to the holidays in my home as is it not only a time to worship, but to proudly show my faith to others.  This entire thread is very sad.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/03/10 at 5:44 pm

Ilana,
It is frustrating but every time I look at this thread it reminds me of a great part of my life.  I’m a marathon swimmer and have swam around the world.  I always fit in no matter the culture if I’m respectful.  I have swam in Turkey, China among other places. 
But one of the best experiences was in NYC swimming around Manhattan, yep one of those swimmers…  I was headed round the back side near the East/Harlem intersection with my kayaker, chatting with people on my feeds and waving. We came upon a Hasidic couple out for a walk.  They were shocked and asked my kayaker some questions so I decided good time for a feed.  They asked the normal questions, how far are you going, are you crazy, how long will it take, can you touch the boat, etc… And wished me luck, with a smile and a wave told me to ‘get back to swimming’...  What an amazing experience in my own country…
There are more similarities that bind us than differentiate us if we embrace them.  And the patients in the Jewish Hospital that faces the river always wave at us when we pass.  Us swimmers in our speedos, caps and goggles far from conservative dress…  That is unity in humanity.

Comment by LC on 8/03/10 at 6:42 pm

LC,  I don’t know if this thread should make me laugh or cry.  I love your story.  Thanks for sharing.  Swimming around the world?  That is insane.  I’d be so scared.  I am terrified to be in the water if I can’t see what is swimming around me.  I am so impressed by your aquatic accomplishments.  That is fabulous!

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/03/10 at 6:52 pm

I think the Reform movement approach to officiating at intermarraige and patrilineal lineage is damaging the Jewish people, as bad as the Rotem bill.  We need to try to find some common principles if being Jewish is to mean anything.  Seeing the groom getting married on Shabbat to a non Jew and wearing a tallet and kippah—- what a gross distortion of Judaism.  To each his own, marry for love and respect, but you can’t be both Jewish and non Jewish in my opinion.  What a horrible example for Jewish youth.  I blame first and foremost the Rabbi—he may be from Yale but he certainly doesn’t represent the religion I know and love called Judaism.

Comment by R Lee Smith on 8/04/10 at 9:57 am

Ilana,

In response to a few things said above, a Rabbi officiating at an interfaith weeding is akin to a vegetarian eating meat at a dinner. A Rabbi that does not believe in the Torah - which openly says no to intermarriage (Deuteronomy 7, Ezra 10) is in no position to be considered a Jewish authority. Employment of a Talit, chupa, etc - cute that they managed to keep our non-essential customs and dismissed a fundamental one. What’s so Jewish about that wedding?

Second, are Jews really more critical of ourselves than others are? Yes, out of interest of self-preservation.

Comment by michael on 8/04/10 at 10:14 am

Folks,
When you completely follow the old testament in all it’s glory, then I will believe that it is all current.  People will quote one or two passages to make a point but never refer to those that are not relevant anymore.

I’ve borrowed from West Wing:

“BARTLET: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an “abomination!”

JACOBS: I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

BARTLET: Yes it does. Leviticus!

JACOBS: 18:22.

BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I wanted to sell my youngest daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown Sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

(Bartlet only waits a second for a response, then plunges on.)

BARTLET: While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGary, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Or is it okay to call the police?

(Bartlet barely pauses to take a breath.)

BARTLET: Here’s one that’s really important, because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?”

Now the football thing may not be a problem anymore with synthetic footballs, but how many of you sell your daughter, etc?  Honestly, using the bible to support narrow mindedness is just ugly.

Comment by LC on 8/04/10 at 11:48 am

I hope this is my last comment.  I believe it was mentioned that the ceremony began as the sun was setting.  That might have been mentioned for the Jewish people to approve of the Rabbi blessing the marriage and participating in the ceremony.  I’m so sorry that the Jewish religion has become so harsh.  What is wrong with the reform movement allowing the children brought up Jewish (perhaps even being converted at birth) with a Jewish father, and non-Jewish mother?  Again, we are becoming an alienating people.  In Israel the majority of the people are secular Jews, not Orthodox.  The Orthodox are just “louder” and more persistent. Many of our friends are from Israel, have family that has remained there, and have told us this.  Jerusalem is a very religious city, but outside of Jerusalem, there are many “reform” Jews.  There isn’t even a Conservative movement in Israel.  Why don’t we unite and show the world we have unity.  Be proud of those who show their Jewish identity, and live and let live.  After all, Albert Einstein, more or less an atheist was Jewish, and both Drs Salk and Sabin were Jewish, and eradicated polio.  Dr. Salk did not even patent his vaccine.  Let the world know we contribute to society, and quit criticizing our own people. Again, we can’t afford to help those who want to eradicate us.

Comment by Andi on 8/04/10 at 11:51 am

Andi,

All of the photos that I’ve seen suggest that it was nowhere near sunset; blue skies above in each of them. Plus, http://blogs.forward.com/the-shmooze/129751/ - according to this author, the wedding went down 2 hours before Shabbos was over.

What’s wrong with the Reform movement allowing it is that there is no basis for it in the Torah itself;  it therefore is not Jewish in any way. And there is a Conservative movement in Israel, called Masorti. Unity? Until several decades ago, the Jewish people WERE united in the idea that only children born of Jewish mothers were recognized as Jews by birth. It’s the seculars that shattered that unity.

If it’s that the Orthodox are “louder”, let the others, using the Torah and traditional Jewish sources as their guides, debate us on what Judaism is, and what G-d wants of us. Let someone make a case that it’s okay to intermarry al pi Torah, or that children of non-Jews are recognized as Jews.

Mezvinsky’s Rabbi thinks it’s okay to oversee a Jewish and non-Jewish wedding? That’s not interfaith. For Mezvinsky and the Rabbi, it’s lack of faith.

Comment by Michael on 8/04/10 at 1:24 pm

@ RL:  your comment made me think and change my position a little bit.  I agree with a lot of with what you wrote.  Thank you.

@ Michael:  Your analogy was great.  This thread has made me rethink my position on couple of things,, which is both exciting and troubling.  I feel a little wishy washy on my position at the moment, but I’m figuring it all out and would love the dialogue to continue.

@ LC:  Brilliant.

@ Andi:  I believe the wedding was well before sunset and actually took place on the Sabbath.

@ Michael:  Was that actually Marc’s Rabbi?  He may have been simply a hired hand and not connected to either one of them, which makes it even grosser.

Comment by Ilana Angel on 8/04/10 at 7:26 pm

Ilana,

From what I recall, Marc and Chelsea were spotted praying at JTS over the High Holidays, and the official Conservatice positions is not to officiate at interfaith weddings. Yale Daily News, over at http://www.yaledailynews.com/crosscampus/2010/08/01/slifkas-ponet-officiates-clinton-wedding/, has it that the Rabbi was referred, and is not personally involved in their lives.

LC, to note - a) the bible doesn’t call homosexuality itself an abomination, but the act of it; the laws regarding slavery, well, it’s not quite slavery in the Western sense. It’s contracted servitude; see Leviticus 25:39-43 for an example. Slaves, in the Torah’s view, would be the modern view of today’s hotel workers. (With required housing).  Leo McGarry was not Jewish, and anything related Shabbos observance pertains to Jews exclusively. Same goes for Leviticus 11:7; further, footballs haven’t been made of actual pigskin in decades.

It’s good, then, that Bartlett’s profession was in politics; he would’ve made a horrible theologian

Comment by Michael on 8/05/10 at 9:48 am

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