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February 27, 2012 | 12:29 am

Mormon Temples and Jews: The SWC Charade Continues

Posted by Mark Paredes

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“FYI, discovered today: Posthumous baptisms for the parents of Simon Wiesenthal. I am collecting evidence, which will be e-mailed to you, if requested, as long as there is a public stink.” – e-mail sent by anti-Mormon genealogy researcher Helen Radkey to Rabbi Abraham Cooper, February 8, 2012

He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion. – 2 Nephi 26:29

——-

Last week the charade involving a group of leaders in the Jewish community and the LDS Church’s practice of proxy immersions reached a new low. Elie Wiesel, one of the towering moral figures of our age, found out that his father and grandfather’s names had been submitted by a disobedient member of the church for temple ordinances. The church quickly canceled the submissions, but not before Mr. Wiesel had called on the church (via the Huffington Post) to stop performing temple ordinances for all Jews, not just Holocaust victims. He then asked Mitt Romney to “speak to his own church” about the issue. With all due respect to Mr. Wiesel (and considerable respect is due), he would probably do more good by suggesting to certain Jewish leaders that they mind their own business.

I’m giving Elie Wiesel a pass on this because he’s 83 and – more importantly – because he was born in Romania, my new wife’s homeland, and she’s a big fan. However, I can no longer cast a benign eye on the nefarious goings-on at the Simon Wiesenthal Center (SWC) in Los Angeles. SWC Rabbis Hier and Cooper have greatly overplayed their hand with their latest temper tantrum, and I’m going to call them on it. This is easily the most painful article that I have written for this blog, and I regret very much that I need to address this topic again. However, there is a limit to everyone’s patience. I have reached mine.

Many an Orthodox rabbi has complained to me of the liberties taken with Jewish law by their colleagues in more liberal movements. Whatever the sins of Reform rabbis may be, they pale in comparison to the SWC’s unwarranted extension of halachic authority to the olam ha-ba (afterlife).

A basic recap of the issue is necessary, though I have already written several articles on the practice and feel no need to repeat myself. In the early 90s, a group of Jewish leaders approached the church after discovering that a few members had submitted – in violation of church rules – names of Holocaust victims for LDS temple ordinances. Although these ordinances do NOT confer membership in the church, the leaders claimed to be offended. They even made the bizarre claim that if this issue were not addressed further, future generations might think that Mormons, not Jews, were killed during the Holocaust (I am not making this up).

Had I been in charge of the LDS delegation to the initial meeting, it would have been a short one. I would have started off by asking the leaders what authority they had to represent dead Jews. The answer? None. One of them, Ernest Michel, headed up a Holocaust survivors’ group, but representing the living was as far as his writ extended. There is an interesting paradox in Jewish life that never ceases to amaze me. On the one hand, Jews freely admit that no one in the world can speak on behalf of all Jews. Judaism has no hierarchy, no pope, no president, no high priest (at least not for 2,000 years). However, this fact does not discourage Jewish leaders from seeking opportunities to represent the entire Jewish community to non-Jewish groups, especially churches, if there is some personal benefit in it for them.

In this case, Ernest Michel had every right to receive an explanation from church leaders as to why his relatives had been improperly submitted for LDS temple rites. However, he exceeded his mandate when he presumed to negotiate on behalf of the dead. In the 1995 agreement, Mr. Michel stated that his group, the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, “considers its members as guardians of the rights of Jewish Holocaust victims.” This was, of course, untrue. No one on earth has the authority to represent the 6 million victims. 

Thankfully, the people in Salt Lake City are much nicer than I, and church leaders generously signed a memorandum of understanding in 1995, promising to do what they could to prevent the unauthorized submission of Holocaust victims’ names to LDS temples (members are only supposed to submit names of their ancestors for the ordinances). They also promised to delete such names from the church’s database if/when they were found.

It’s important to note here that the church offered at that time to “freeze” names of all known Holocaust victims for purposes of temple work if the Jewish leaders would agree. Unfortunately, they chose the second option of taking upon themselves the responsibility of notifying the church whenever they discovered the submission of a Holocaust victim’s name. The Jewish leaders knew from the beginning that the option they chose would mean that many names, and sometimes the same names, would continue to pop up in the database. In a stunning moment of candor, someone with detailed knowledge of the early discussions acknowledged to me that one of the reasons that the Jewish leaders chose this option was so they could continue to hold church leaders’ feet to the fire on this issue and eventually reach their ultimate goal: to have the LDS Church declare that Judaism was sufficient for salvation, and temple ordinances were not necessary for Jews.

What is also often lost in this discussion is the promise that the Jewish leaders made in the agreement. After the church agreed to take certain steps – which it did long ago – the Jewish signatories agreed to “exercise their best efforts to communicate and persuade the other Jewish organizations as to the sufficiency of this agreement.” Furthermore, “It was agreed that differences between friends should be reduced and eliminated.” While many of the Jewish leaders have taken this obligation seriously, Rabbis Hier and Cooper have not. 
 
Last week the rabbis’  hit pay dirt. According to the Washington Post, she sent the following e-mail to Rabbi Cooper last week: “FYI, discovered today: Posthumous baptisms for the parents of Simon Wiesenthal. I am collecting evidence, which will be e-mailed to you, if requested, as long as there is a public stink.” Well, there was, beginning with this pompous press release by the rabbis: “We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples. Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust. The only way such insensitive practices would finally stop is if Church leaders finally decided to change their practices and policies on posthumous baptisms, a move which this latest outrage proves that they are unwilling to do. We are grateful to activist Helen Radkey for exposing the latest outrage.”

First of all, anyone who knows the SWC rabbis knows how they react to people who use material provided by anti-Semites to defame Jews. Why are they using an anti-Mormon to help them defame the philo-Semitic LDS Church? Have they no shame? If we judge people by the company they keep, the rabbis don’t come off so well here. At least they were honest enough to identify their ultimate goal: to get the church to change its “policies” and “practices” on proxy immersions.

I have met and spoken with the SWC rabbis on several occasions, and on a personal level I have always enjoyed working with them. When I was the executive director of a Jewish non-profit, they came through for me in a big way when I needed them. When the SWC needed help setting up a genealogy exhibit, the LDS Church helped them free of charge. They know that I have enormous respect for the work that they do for Jews worldwide. While I am under no illusion that I will be spending next Friday night at their shabbat tables after posting this article, it is important to me that readers know what the rabbis already do: this is a most painful article to write, and I regret very much that the rabbis’ outrageous actions through the years have forced me to do so. 

Rabbis Hier and Cooper have no standing whatsoever to demand that a church change its religious practices because they’re offended by them. They tried that with the Catholics (e.g., the resurrected Good Friday prayer), and were politely told to mind their own business. I long for the day when the rabbis’ latest temper tantrum will be met with a shrug by both Mormons and Jews.

I wish to conclude this essay by making two important points. First, the rabbis are demanding a standard of perfection from LDS leaders that they would object to if demanded of the Orthodox community. There are 14 million Mormons, and in the idealized world of the SWC, computers at LDS genealogy centers would somehow be able to detect when even one of them is about to improperly submit a Jewish name for a temple ordinance. This is ridiculous, and they know it. I have a question for them: Why can’t they do something to address the problem of agunoth in the Orthodox community worldwide? Everyone knows that it’s outrageous, and rabbis throughout the world denounce husbands who refuse to grant divorces to their estranged Jewish wives. Why can’t Rabbis Hier and Cooper force every Orthodox husband to toe the line on marriages? Because the husbands have free will, that’s why. The requirement that husbands grant divorces can’t be eliminated, because that would violate Jewish law. So basically the solution is for the Orthodox community to declare the correct principle of husbands being mensches to their wives, then work to shame and sanction violators of that principle. That’s what religious groups do all over the world to bring their members into line.   

The second point is to highlight the unfortunate way in which the SWC rabbis and a few others have worked hard to reframe this issue in misleading terms in the Jewish community. Even The Forward calls temple ordinances “proxy conversions,” an intentionally false and misleading term. The only reason that people like Elie Wiesel are “outraged” by LDS temple practices is because the SWC rabbis have told him that evil Mormons are trying to convert his departed relatives. They know that temple ordinances do not make someone a Mormon, but in a misguided effort to shore up their donor base they pretend to defend Jewish souls by issuing arrogant press releases every time a prominent Jewish name is found in LDS databases. There is no logical reason for the rabbis to devote so much time and attention to the actions of a few disobedient Mormons, unless their goals are dishonorable. If they were smart (and honest), they’d adopt the attitude of the Catholic Church: we don’t like the fact that prominent Catholics are baptized, but in the end we don’t believe it has any effect on their souls.

In the past week, I have convinced two LDS teachers and an entertainment executive to cancel trips planned to the SWC’s Museum of Tolerance. It is my hope that Mormons and people of goodwill of other faiths will choose not to visit an institution that is using an anti-Mormon mercenary to dig up material in an attempt to embarrass a church that has always been very friendly to Jews. The rabbis have also threatened LDS leaders with protests on more than one occasion unless their demands were met. This is a violation of both ethics and decency that is beneath the dignity of rabbis of their stature.  In spite of this persecution, Mormons can take consolation from the fact that Jews, even Holocaust victims, are still not exempted from the requirements of LDS temple ordinances. As LDS Church spokesman Michael Otterson pointed out a few days ago, direct descendants of Holocaust victims (an admittedly small group) are still able to perform these ordinances for their ancestors.

Mormons are answerable to God concerning their performance of proxy ordinances. In addition, Jews who find out that their ancestors have had their names submitted to LDS temples are certainly entitled to an explanation of how and why this has happened. However, the day will never come (a favorite phrase of Rabbi Hier) that Mormons will owe an explanation to the SWC and others on the lunatic fringe of this issue in the Jewish community. Rabbis Hier and Cooper would do well to devote their considerable talents to helping Jews in this world instead of attacking a church that means them no harm in the next. 

——

NOTE FROM THE JEWISH JOURNAL: In a previous version of this blog entry, Mark Paredes made a statement to the effect that the Simon Wiesenthal Center paid Helen Radkey for her information.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center has categorically denied that any such payments were made, and we have removed the allegation from the blog.  You can read the letter from the Simon Weisenthal Center below:

The Jewish Journal violated the basic standards of journalism and did a disservice to your readers when you posted a blog that impugned the integrity of Simon Wiesenthal Center officials and that of activist Helen Radkey.  This attack was posted with a prominently displayed picture of Rabbi Marvin Hier, Founder and Dean of the Center, next to the title, “Mormons and Jews, the SWC Charade Continues.”

You didn’t ask, but for the record, Ms. Radkey is not a paid informant, and she and the Center are owed an apology by the Journal.  Had the editors even bothered to check, we would have debunked this libelous assertion.  Helen Radkey isa continuing source of accurate information about the posthumous baptisms of victims of the Shoah and prominent historic Jewish figures by members of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

The Jewish Journal had earlier reported the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s protest following Ms. Radkey’s revelation that the parents of Simon Wiesenthal had recently been posthumously baptized. Since then, Dr. Elie Wiesel protested the presence of the names of his parents on a preparatory list.

As the person who represented the Wiesenthal Center at numerous meetings with senior LDS officials on this issue dating back from 1995 to a meeting in New York in 2010, I, along with Holocaust survivor Ernst Michel and other officials of Jewish organizations dealt with the LDS representatives with appropriate and earned respect. We also recognize the steps the Church has taken to try to address the matter. Unfortunately, recent incidents show that more must be done within the Church to deal with those individual Mormons who still view such actions as appropriate. Any further moves to address this matter must come from within the Church and cannot and should not be dictated by others.

And now comes word that Wall Street Journal reporter, Daniel Pearl, who was kidnapped and butchered by Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan 10 years ago, was also recently posthumously baptized. We can assume that those who performed this rite did so out of love and concern for the soul of Daniel. But at what cost to the living? Last week, Dr. Judea Pearl, Danny’s beloved father, presented the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s annual State of Anti-Semitism lecture in New York.  In dialogue with the audience Dr. Pearl declared that, “Danny was murdered because he was a Jew.”

To those who posthumously baptized Danny, we ask more in sorrow than anger: ” Haven’t Danny’s parents suffered enough?”

Signed Rabbi Abraham Cooper
Associate Dean
Simon Wiesenthal Center
 
                   

Mark Paredes is a member of the Jewish Relations Committee of the LDS Church's Southern California Public Affairs Council. You can contact Mark at deverareligione@yahoo.com and follow him on Twitter @jewsandmormons.

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I am just wondering how an ex- and anti-Mormon can get into the database that is supposedly only accessible by members of the church….

Comment by Doris on 2/27/12 at 7:47 am

I would not be shocked to learn that a disaffected member of the Mormon church submitted those names at the behest or perhaps the connivance of Radkey or the rabbis at the SWC.

Comment by Don Pritchard on 2/27/12 at 8:13 am

This is a very enlightening article. What are the chances that all the people who were critical of these baptisms last week will read this article and understand the true facts. Unfortunately, very few.
Tom Johnson

Comment by Tom Johnson on 2/27/12 at 9:00 am

Ditto Don.
Doris, what would you do if someone handed you a slip with Anne Franks name on it? I would object immediately.
I was wondering how someone would get Anne Franks name baptized. you would have to submit it, print up the pink slip, have a recorder, 2 witnesses and someone to conduct the baptism plus the proxy. There are a minimum of 7 people that had to be involved in this. I don’t understand how her name made it threw. Most people would have stopped and refused to do the ordinance, if they knew who Anne Frank was.

Comment by DC on 2/27/12 at 9:25 am

I use to volunteer in the office in Seattle (1998-2008). One of my duties was to print up the paperwork. It was routine to review the names and see if there are obvious problems with the submission. ie.. famous people, questionable names and of course Holocaust victims. I did see some Polish names that died in the 1940’s. The member that submitted was right there. I got the Recorder and he questioned her about it. They were her family names, they were Catholic (the baptism and marriages were in the catholic church going back a hundred years) and their death locations did not match a concentration camp so we let them threw. But we do look for them.

Comment by dc on 2/27/12 at 9:25 am

Thank you! I am so grateful for your thoughtful article.

Comment by Mark on 2/27/12 at 9:53 am

The other thing that bothers me about this is the untruths being passed about. I keep reading articles that state the church said Mr. Wiesel’s relatives had been baptized, but that’s not what the church said at all. They had not been baptized at all, their names had been submitted and would have been caught and removed through the controls the church had set up. There was no need for all the outrage at all. The process was working properly. That’s what makes me think someone was in league with Mrs. Radkey to embarass the church.

Comment by Don Pritchard on 2/27/12 at 9:55 am

I find this situation rife with with several consummate ironies. Historical tragedies like the Holocaust happen in part because evil individuals manipulate large groups of people into hating other large groups of people. The fact that Elie Wiesel and the rabbis at The Museum of ‘Tolerance’ (which in this case has proven to be anything but) have allowed themselves to be used as tools of retribution by an angry ex/anti-Mormon like Radkey is just baffling. Thank you, Mark, for shedding some light on it all.

Comment by JD on 2/27/12 at 10:08 am

Re: Dorris—the way Radkey gains access to computers is by hanging around genealogy centers and waiting for unsuspecting LDS members to forget to log-off their computers. (See here for Washington Post article on the subject: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-mormon-files-researcher-helen-radkey-seeks-to-cause-a-headache-for-romney/2012/02/16/gIQAhL3gIR_story.html)

Comment by JD on 2/27/12 at 10:09 am

You don’t say Rabbis Hier & Cooper, or the SWC, signed onto this 1995 MOU. If not, why should they respect it? Even if so, sounds like LDS has gotten sloppy about compliance and deserved to be called on it.  Setting aside your faux outrage about PIs acting all snoopy (OMG!), the real issue is whether someone in the Jewish community should “continue to hold the Church’s feet to the fire” on this issue.  You duck that issue too—you say it’s not really a ‘conversion,’ but what exactly is it, then? Why shouldn’t we find it offensive & insulting?

Comment by LiveJew on 2/27/12 at 2:25 pm

I hope Mr. Paredes shares this information DIRECTLY with the Washington Post editors and reporters

Comment by KRA on 2/27/12 at 2:26 pm

@Livejew: please take the time to learn about LDS proxy baptisms before you criticize. Here are two resources to learn why you shouldn’t find it offensive and insulting:
1. The LDS Church’s explanation of temple baptisms:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/background-explanation-of-temple-baptism
2. Mark Paredes’ excellent previous article on the subject:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/answers_to_a_rabbi_part_3_baptizing_dead_jews_39111209/
Regards,
dave

Comment by Dave on 2/27/12 at 3:43 pm

DC,
Was there only one person with the name “Ann Frank”?

If not, there would have to be a process to identify that the submittee was a/the Holocaust victim and, if so, that the submittor was not a member of their family.

None of this was suggested in the development of the MOU.

Comment by manaen on 2/27/12 at 3:52 pm

@LiveJew
We see these as offering so the decedents can choose.  We do not see these as conversions any more than knocking on your door to offer.

Comment by manaen on 2/27/12 at 3:58 pm

As far as someone “recognizing” the name “Anne Frank”; the proxy baptism took place in an LDS temple in Costa Rica. And yes, I seriously doubt that the average Costa Rican has a familiarity with that name and its attendant history. And quite honestly, no one has to “hang around and wait” for a computer in the LDS Family history library in order to have access. They are always open for any member of the public to use.

Comment by Mark Gelter on 2/27/12 at 5:48 pm

Most excellent writing. And obviously most difficult for you. Hopefully they will feel some remorse and change course.

Comment by John Zimmerman on 2/27/12 at 7:10 pm

@Mark Gelter
The Washington post article on Radkey states:

“In 2006 and 2009, the library disciplined [Radkey] for sneaking onto computers used by Mormons who had not logged off their terminals and then spending hours using their accounts to dig through the private church records.”

I’m not sure, but I take it from this that anyone can use the computers, but you have to be logged in to access certain databases.

Comment by JD on 2/27/12 at 9:24 pm

Excellent article and well articulated. It just goes to show that Radkey left the Church but won’t leave the Church alone.

It’s unfortunate that we all just can’t seem to get along sometimes.

Comment by hurricaneharris7 on 2/27/12 at 10:51 pm

I thank you so much for this article. It feels so good to know that we do have some friends in a sometimes hateful world. I’m so happy to see that a few people can’t break down relationships between millions of people.

Comment by Joe on 2/28/12 at 11:50 pm

Do you know what I did when this happened? I shrugged my shoulders and said, “Meh, whatever floats their boat.” As Millions of Jews did as well. The problem is the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It sounds as if that lady has been holding onto names, waiting for Mormons to already be in the news. She must have really loved it at church, if she is always going back.

Comment by brad lee on 2/29/12 at 3:18 pm

It dawns on me to wonder what the reaction would have been if somehow it became known to SWC or the Jewish community that “the Mormons” were proxy baptizing anyone EXCEPT Jews or a subset of Jews, like Holocaust victims.  Wouldn’t there then be outrage over THAT?  At that point, the issue would not be “you’re not respecting our dead ancestors” but would instead be “you’re not respecting our dead ancestors.” 

Hmmm.  I guess that is the exact same issue after all.  Sometimes people just can’t win.

Comment by trytoseeitmyway on 2/29/12 at 5:06 pm

@ Mark and manaen - I did not make myself clear. When the ordinance is being done it has the persons name and usually date of death/birth and location. If someone set out to cause problems they would submit the information to a temple were these names and the issue is not well known. I get the impression that this is deliberately planned or Radkey had the time to search for all 6 million names.

Comment by dc on 2/29/12 at 6:56 pm

Thank you so very much for your words. If the Jewish critics of the Mormon Church understood the love the Mormon people have for the Jewish people and the unwavering support the Mormon people have for the Jewish state maybe they would back off.
Thanks again for this well thought out article. Hopefully good will prevails!

Comment by Marcia Harris on 3/01/12 at 9:55 am

Don’t the scriptures say that the greater sin is upon those who take offense when none is intended? The LDS Church and LDS people love Israel and feel a brotherhood with people of the Jewish faith and most certainly don’t want to hurt or offend. Actually, the temple ordinances performed were because we LOVE them and want them to have the oppertunity to accept or REJECT the blessings of being a family forever. In no way were these people vicariously being added to the membership of our church. In our eyes, husbands and wifes, parents and children, were given the *choice* to be an eternal family. If the LDS Church is wrong, it doesn’t matter, anyway.

Comment by Jennifer on 3/01/12 at 2:29 pm

Unbelievable! I am shocked that these rabbis think—or pretend to think—that their Jewish ancestors are being converted to Mormonism without choosing to do so. Nobody converts to anything without their consent. It’s common sense. By the same token, if these ancestors would have wanted to accept that baptism but were unable to do so because these descendants of theirs have denied them the right to choose by making this big stink with the LDS church, well, that will be one interesting family reunion in the hereafter…

Comment by Vera B on 3/02/12 at 11:03 am

Even after the strenuous denial by the SWC of payments to Helen, the article still hits a chord.  The LDS church would never give a forum to an excommunicated muck raker, and the LDS church will still turn the other cheek and help with noble Jewish causes where it can.  It seems that the SWC cannot let this issue be settled, as well as it can be, with the proper officials in the LDS church.

Comment by Kolin V on 3/02/12 at 4:27 pm

Needless to say, I still stand by every word of my original post. It was Rabbi Cooper himself who told me in a meeting several years ago that the SWC was rewarding Helen for her info, and his interfaith director was there to witness it. Either the rabbi was lying then or he’s lying now. I’ll leave it to the reader to decide. Instead of an unequivocal denial signed by Rabbis Hier, Cooper, and Adlerstein, what we have above is a rambling statement that does not deny that Helen has ever received remuneration from the SWC. Sounds rather suspicious to me.

Comment by Mark Paredes on 3/02/12 at 10:49 pm

Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has urged the international community to take steps against Iran’s nuclear program and “not sit idly by during any attempt to carry out another Holocaust.” 
People of all faiths can show their support by donating to such charities as:
American Friends of Magen David Adom
Hatazalah Rescue of Israel
Operation Lifeshield
ZAKA Search and Rescue
And everyone can pray for Peace in Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6).

Comment by Tom Irvine on 3/03/12 at 7:05 am

I applaud your candid analysis, Mark. For the SWC to use someone like Helen Radkey as their ally is disingenuous at best.
Anyway, this whole stink is the work of an agitator. All it took was to enter names, one by one, of famous respected Jews, tip off Radkey and get media traction. Poor Mr Wiesel took the bait. Add some more names, etc ...
I can’t wait for someone to unmask the culprit.

Comment by john on 3/03/12 at 1:26 pm

I am a practicing Mormon, and I thought you might like to know that yesterday our bishop read a letter to the whole congregation from the First Presidency. The letter reminded members that in 1995, the church asked us to only submit names of our actual ancestors for temple ordinances, and that we’re not allowed to submit names we had no authority to submit, which includes (but is not limited to) names of Holocaust victims and celebrities. Anyone violating this policy is subject to lose his access to familysearch.org, the site used for genealogical research and name submission.  Anyway, just thought you might be interested in that follow up.

Comment by Whitney Hemsath on 3/05/12 at 8:12 am

The one thing I have 100% confidence in is that the Jewish leaders, particularly the Orthodox, will always mislead, misguide and misinform the Jewish community.  Of course the Jewish community would not have it any other way.  I look forward to getting reparations from the Jewish community whom I fully blame for the death of my family in the Holocaust.  Please stop kidding yourselves in trying to protect me.  It is the creepy leaders of the Orthodox world that I need protection from.

Comment by theleviteline.com on 3/07/12 at 9:00 pm

And how the Hell do you baptize dead, buried and maybe cremated people.  Some people have too much time and money on their hands.  I pray they end up in the gutter, then they’ll have real problems and maybe not protect me from non-problems.

Comment by theleviteline.com on 3/07/12 at 9:01 pm

I’d say this issue will be put to rest when Mormons stop “baptizing” Jews.  To debate weather a dead person can “accept” such a baptism is ridiculous.  But to write a blog post besmirching Elie Wiesel and his work is patently offensive.  It is the Mormons who need to explain themselves here, not any other group

Comment by EW on 3/19/12 at 5:26 pm

Here we go again.  “Offensive” another word for the religious creeps to throw around to stifle people.  Amazingly in works, thanks to the polite, don’t make any waves, cowards.  And for all the New Testament believers, cowards suffer the second death, ie. Hell.  I hope they do, they and their leaders deserve it. 

Now the “offensive” term here was used a little differently.  Not used here to stifle words, but action.  Usually though it is used to stifle peoples free expression.  Usually, especially in white society this succeeds.

Comment by theleviteline.com on 3/19/12 at 5:47 pm

@ Leviteline -
“The temple (proxy) baptism ceremony is simple and brief. Two people, dressed in white clothing, enter a temple baptismal font. One offers a short prayer in which the name of a deceased person is reverently spoken. He then briefly immerses the other person in the water.”

That is taken from the mormon new room. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/background-explanation-of-temple-baptism

Both people performing the ordinance are living people. The only way the deceased person is involved is by speaking their name. Most people who perform proxy baptisms actually do so at great personal expense of time and money, and only make the sacrifice out of love.

Comment by Whitney Hemsath on 4/01/12 at 2:42 pm

A more appropriate way for LDS to honor the Jewish dead is to visit a cemetery and to place pebbles on the gravestones.  I have done this in my own community:  http://www.vibrationdata.com/Jewish_Gravestones.htm

Comment by Tom Irvine on 4/01/12 at 3:45 pm

Oh yes, “love” and don’t forget “freedom.”  Two more “positive” words used to manipulate people.  Maybe you egomaniacs recognized that you are not God you might realize that Heaven and Hell is not for you to decide, but for God to decide.  How this is not understood is so ridiculous that I don’t believe you don’t understand this.

Comment by theleviteline.com on 4/01/12 at 4:46 pm

Now go ahead and psychoanalyze me.  Why am I so angry?  All once again to try to stifle me.  Good luck.  I assure you and all the rest of the pig-eating pagan (ie. Christians) bullies, cowards and manipulators I will only get that much nastier and vicious, with the truth about ALL that is wrong with YOU. I won’t play all innocent either.  You folks live without any laws and hence constatnly stick your pig-noses in everyone elses business, cause your RELIGION doesn’t ask anything of you.  I’m praying for you too.  I hope y’all end up where I pray you do, both on earth and afterwards.  In Jesus the Jew’s Name I do pray.

Comment by theleviteline.com on 4/01/12 at 4:47 pm

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