David Suissa

June 21, 2011

Obama’s nightmare

By David Suissa

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Apparently, President Barack Obama believes that whenever the Israelis and the Palestinians sit down for peace talks, the holiest site in Judaism — the Western Wall — will be with the Palestinians. I didn’t realize this either, until I listened to some knowledgeable commentators.

It comes down to a careful reading of Obama’s suggested formulation for restarting peace talks: “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps.” As Jennifer Rubin writes in The Washington Post, “This formulation is a recipe for undermining the Israeli bargaining position.”

Rubin quotes former deputy national security adviser Elliot Abrams: “1967 lines with agreed swaps means you’re saying to Israel that ‘You think you have the Western Wall [of the ancient Jewish temple in Jerusalem] as part of Israel, but we don’t … [and] you need to come up with some swaps that Palestinians believe acceptable to keep the Western Wall in Israel.’ ”

This is not just semantics. Obama is saying to Israel: The starting position for future peace talks is that you don’t have the Western Wall, at least not until the Palestinians say you do.

Incredible, no?

Of course, Obama and his Jewish supporters in high places are hoping — praying? — that not too many people will catch this. So they have launched a major diplomatic offensive to convince us that everything Obama is doing is actually good for Israel.

This will be an uphill battle. Notwithstanding Obama’s many lofty statements about the “unshakable bond” between Israel and the United States, his record of fairness to Israel in peace talks has been shaky — from demanding draconian construction freezes before negotiations even started to the latest precondition on “1967” borders.

As David Horovitz wrote in The Jerusalem Post, “Obama is urging Israel — several of whose leaders have offered dramatic territorial concessions in the cause of peace, and proven their honest intentions by leaving southern Lebanon, Gaza and major West Bank cities, only to be rewarded with new bouts of violence — to give up its key disputed asset, the biblically resonant territory of Judea and Samaria, as stage one of a ‘peace’ process.

“But he is not [explicitly] demanding that the Palestinians — whose leaders have consistently failed to embrace far-reaching peace offers, most notably Ehud Olmert’s 2008 offer of a withdrawal to adjusted ’67 lines and the dividing of Jerusalem — give up their key disputed asset, the unconscionable demand for a Jewish-state-destroying ‘right of return’ for millions, until some vague subsequent stage. …”

As Horovitz laments: “Only a president who ignores or underestimates Palestinian hostility to Israel could propose a formula for reviving negotiations in which he set out those parameters for high-risk territorial compromise without simultaneously making crystal clear that there will be no ‘right of return’ for Palestinian refugees.”

In my view, that summarizes Obama’s biggest mistake: a vexing pattern of letting Palestinians off the hook and putting serious pressure only on Israel.

Rubin quotes a Capitol Hill Democrat as being “dismayed” by Obama’s lack of evenhandedness: “The perception that Obama’s position on the starting point for Middle East peace talks is the same as Abbas’s is not only hurtful to his support among pro-Israel Democrats, but has not moved us closer to peace.”

What’s crazy is that in his obsession with pressuring Israel, Obama is ignoring the 800-pound gorilla in the room: Hamas. Remember when Obama stood at the AIPAC convention last month and called the agreement between Hamas and Fatah an “enormous obstacle to peace”? And when he said Israel “cannot be expected to negotiate with Palestinians who do not recognize its right to exist”? And when he demanded that Hamas “accept the basic responsibilities of peace: recognizing Israel’s right to exist, rejecting violence, and adhering to all existing agreements”?

That made so much sense: If you’re going to have a precondition for peace talks, wouldn’t recognizing you exist be the natural one?

But that was then, and this is now. Away from the klieg lights of AIPAC, our president has decided that the only precondition to peace talks should be Israel agreeing to the Palestinian opening position on borders.

And Obama wonders why so many people don’t trust him on Israel.

If you ask me, Obama’s nightmare is to be forced to veto the Palestinian initiative at the United Nations in September. This would single him out in dramatic fashion as a supporter and defender of the Jewish state, thus undermining his internationalist agenda. So, in a desperate attempt to avert that moment of truth, he’s putting ridiculous pressure on a great American ally and virtually groveling to entice the rejectionist and conniving Palestinians back to the peace table.

How sad. The most powerful man in the world is afraid to utter these simple words: “Our friend and ally Israel has said repeatedly that it is willing to return to the peace table. We call on the Palestinians to do the same; we call on Hamas to agree to the Quartet conditions; and we call on the world community and the United Nations to endorse an immediate return to peace talks between Israel and a Palestinian partner that does not include a terrorist entity.”

That would have been the right thing to do. Instead, Obama has decided to hand over the Western Wall to the Palestinians as a starting point for negotiations.

The only polite Jewish response that I see is, “No, you can’t.”

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David Suissa is a branding consultant and the founder of OLAM magazine. For speaking engagements and other inquiries, he can be reached at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) or davidsuissa.com. A version of this article appeared in print.

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Maybe Obama forgot to say - the Fourth of July, 1967 borders.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/21/11 at 8:25 pm

these columns usually include uniformed nonsense on “ha matsav” but this reaches new heights. Sitting here in israel where I spend half my time and obsessively following the responsible media (which does not include the jpost which no one pays attention to here) i can only sit in wonder that anyone can take this stuff seriously. Mr suissa you can read ynet or haaretz in english (and there is even more stuff in hebrew) on the internet do some research…or wrtie about american jewry !

Comment by l wineman on 6/21/11 at 9:03 pm

i guess shimon peres wants the kotel under palestinian control too
Whoever accepts the basic principle of the 1967 lines will receive international support from the world,” Peres said. “Whoever rejects it will lose the world.” He was referring to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s vehement objection to starting peace talks on the basis of the 1967 lines, which he called “indefensible” in both the Knesset and the U.S. Congress.

and he also wants to sell israel out in Mr Suissa’s bizarro view
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/peres-warns-israel-in-danger-of-ceasing-to-exist-as-jewish-state-1.368132

Comment by l wineman on 6/21/11 at 9:08 pm

even sarah silverman understands the situation better…maybe because she has nieces and nephews that would actually have to serve in the army to defend the “biblically resonant territory of judaea and samaria”:
“Recipe for a Better Tomorrow,” as the title put it, was to “look inward, not define yourself by outside forces.”  What matters more, she asked, “the acreage of where we live, or the values of how we live?”

Comment by l winemman on 6/21/11 at 9:15 pm

Once I saw he was citing Jennifer Rubin and Elliot Abrams as responsible sources it told me that not only does Suissa not know what he’s talking about but he probably can’t read Hebrew and won’t be see dead with the Ha’aretz English edition.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/21/11 at 10:10 pm

yes jeff…after all why read the paper that every israeli opinion leader right or left reads every morning (even if a partial translation is available in english) when you can read the jpost a paper only a bunch of right wing olim and american jews read….it might make you informed or something terrible like that

Comment by writing from israel on 6/21/11 at 10:21 pm

That’s funny - What I hear is that nobody in Israel reads Haaretz except for the business section, and nobody in Israel reads the English edition at all. The Haaretz English edition is aimed at foreign antizionists, like the preceding posters.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/21/11 at 10:25 pm

now have the figures. The largest circulation Hebrew newspaper in Israel is Israel Hayom, with a center/right view and over 35% market share. The very close next is Yedioth Ahronoth. Maariv has about half of their figures, and Haaretz a third to a half of Maariv, largely on the basis of the business section, and certainly not for their seditious opinion.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/21/11 at 10:59 pm

Bennie, m’boy, Israel Hayom is a free newspaper so that hardly counts and to call the Sheldon Adelson owned paper “center-right” is tantamount to calling Netanyahu “center-left.” The fact of the matter is that Israeli Jews who don’t want to live in an increasingly regressive society are leaving for more copacetic climes and are being replaced by religious and secular nutcases who would make old man Herzl turn over in his grave.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/21/11 at 11:31 pm

Suissa’s views are very aligned with the Israeli consensus, which, right now, is highly suspicious of Palestinian intentions and strongly supportive of Bibi’s cautious approach. So, what do you guys know that Israelis don’t? That Hamas is hiding a deep desire to make peace with the Jews?

Comment by Andy C on 6/21/11 at 11:36 pm

Netanyahu is center left. And Herzl’s vision was not realistic or congruent with Jewish reality. Good man, though, don’t get me wrong.

Speaking of vision, here is Israel Hayom’s vision statement http://www.israelhayom.com/site/hazon.php
In it is says - ‘To remember that we are Israelis’

Haaretz’s vision statement says - ‘To remember that we are timid and weak little supplicants at the American teat’.

The demographic time bomb as you so correctly perceive is the molting of dead (secular) skin cells and the healthy growth of living (religious) cells in the Israeli body politic.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/21/11 at 11:39 pm

That’s an unusual way of looking at it, Ben. I see it more as “The invasion of the body snatchers.” I did think you would see Netanyahu as center-left and did not expect any different opinion from you regarding Ha’aretz. But I find it little curious that non-sabras such as yourself and Adelson, who doesn’t even live in Israel, seem to think you are more loyal to the land than those born there.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/22/11 at 12:25 am

I’m sabra enough for this purpose. Herzl and Achad Ha’am were no more sabra than me and Sheldon. But me and Sheldon are with the 35+% of Israeli-mix rather than the 7-%. And me and Sheldon are more loyal to a classical historic Jewish Israel founded on truth and justice than the subversive foreign funded Trojan Horse of Haaretz supporters. Haaetz, whose editor had to leave because he was caught telling Condie Rice tha it was his wet dream to beg the US to rape Israel by imposing political, geographical and security conditions on Israel. btw, where are you in all this - pitcher or catcher?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/22/11 at 3:31 am

oy vey How about
shimon peres
chanan gouri
dagan the ex head of the mosad
the ex heads of military intelligence Doc Tamari and aharon zeevi farkash ( you can read their new book i aykh nayda (only available in hebrew)
ex ramatkal gabi ashkenazi
and a whole slew of others that think bibi’s policies are a disaster all trojan horses too?
btw you had better reread your history if you think achad haam and herzl had world views like adelson (remember the uganda plan?)check achad haam’s views on a binational state ben plonie i think you should replace your alias with “am haaretz b’zionut”

Comment by lweinman on 6/22/11 at 4:26 am

what’s amusing about the author is that faced with the oppty to go to the belly of the beast and debate ben ami of jstreet he is reduced to shuffling papers and basically agreeing with him. Then a month or 2 later in a forum where he can rant he reverts to form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTa18Kw7CkM

much like the inconsistency of his alter ego in israel
check the leonard fein article

maybe because their positions dont stand up to scrutiny even by the authors’ themselves when they get a little perspective

Comment by l wineman on 6/22/11 at 4:29 am

“Apparently, President Barack Obama believes that whenever the Israelis and the Palestinians sit down for peace talks, the holiest site in Judaism — the Western Wall — will be with the Palestinians. I didn’t realize this either, until I listened to some knowledgeable commentators”

yup and barack obama is a secret muslim with a forged birth certificate

Comment by sane person reading nonsense on 6/22/11 at 2:53 pm

If securing the Western Wall was Israel’s objective, there would have been peace many years ago.  In fact, the Israel government wants much more – it wants to confine the Palestinians into about half the West Bank, incorporating the remaining half into Israel.  That is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

Comment by Jeff Warner on 6/22/11 at 3:31 pm

I think this may be more of an identity problem than a political problem for the Plonies of this world. Many years ago there was a young man with an approach to the issues like his who regularly turned up extremely agitated in defense of Israel at protests against its transgressions. In 1983 I happened to see him when I was in Jerusalem and, out of curiosity as to how this professed lover of Israel would behave in his “homeland”, I decided to follow him and see where his wanderings led him. The answer was nowhere. He seemed totally lost.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/22/11 at 3:58 pm

Thank you for this great article Mr. Suissa. I have forwarded it to my friends, and the responses I got were quite warm.

Comment by Avi Zirler, La Canada, CA on 6/22/11 at 4:15 pm

Continuing my previous post, the next time I saw this young man at a protest against Israel’s occupation of Lebanon, I interrupted his ravings to tell him and those around him how I had seen and followed him in Jerusalem the previous year and he was clearly as out of place there as he felt he was here and recommended that he get medical help. Whether he did or not I’ll never know because I never saw him again.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/22/11 at 4:35 pm

@HolyJeff, this is a very interesting story indeed. I am deeply touched. Can’t wait for your next story.

Comment by FU on 6/22/11 at 4:55 pm

HollywoodJeff, that was fantastic. How original, and with a great twist at the end! You must have had a great Hollywood career. I’m impressed.

Comment by Mini on 6/22/11 at 5:17 pm

Jeff Warner, can your claim? Israel insists on the following principles:
1. The Palestinians will recognize Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.
2. The agreement with the Palestinians should end the conflict and end further demands from Israel.
3. The Palestinian refugees’ problem should be solved outside the Israelis territory.
4. Jerusalem will remain the capital city of Israel.
The Palestinians reject them all. Can you please clarify which one of these claims do you object to?

Comment by Avi Zirler, La Canada, CA on 6/22/11 at 5:21 pm

Meant to say can you SUPPORT your claim?

Comment by Avi Zirler, La Canada, CA on 6/22/11 at 5:22 pm

thank you mr suissa i knew obama was a muslim, socialist, arab lover who forged his birth certificate wants to raise my taxes to 90% and throw my grandmother under the bus…but I didnt realize he wants to take the kotel away from israel and give it to the palestnians.

will you be joining us at the glenn beck rally in jerusalem in august . It’s really important that intelligent well informed voices like yours are thre, maybe you can contact beck and give a speech.

it would be great if you could make it

Comment by beck/rush fan on 6/22/11 at 10:07 pm

HJ
Thank you for confirming once again your inability to do a straight interaction on the merits of your case.

Jeff Warner
The gorilla in the room is that the Arabs want to confine Israel to 20% of historic Eretz Yisrael, minus the West Bank, the East Bank, Gaza, the Golan, Northern Israel now called ‘southern Lebanon’, a designation of no historic basis. and occupy those parts of Israel with Arabs of foreign origin and derivation.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/22/11 at 10:57 pm

Actually, it’s not really a gorilla, although it might be confused as one because it is very big and gives off a bad smell. It’s actually a dancing bear or what once was a dancing bear from Moldova who was curiously named Avigodor Lieberman whose suffering from an infected paw makes it dangerous for human beings in his vicinity which is why they keep him at a distance. Hamas has started a rumor which has been spread (with a smidgen of lox) by Hezbollah that this bear has been appointed the foreign minister of Israel. Clearly a blood libel! This is a case for the Foxman!

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/22/11 at 11:24 pm

The only problem I have with Avigdor Lieberman is that he is too soft on the ‘Palestine’ issue. It is a bit of laziness on all our parts to refer to foreign Arabs as ‘Palestinians’, which implies that there is a non-Jewish Palestinian national entity. Before 1964, only Jews were referred to as Palestinians. Lieberman is guilty of implying that Arabs have even a hope in hell of establishing a political entity in the Jewish heartland.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/23/11 at 3:57 am

sitting here in israel where i spend half my time it is funny to see the weekly pattern here. DS writes some right wing fantasy analysis and the acolyte talkbackistim pile out with even more outlandish views. Here’s the latest Lieberman is “too soft” on the palestine issue there is no such thing as a palestinian yada yada yada
as long as someone else’s sons will go on military service to defend your fantasy
you guys are witchunting for “traitors” among fellow american jews israelis want their leaders to meet with those folk
http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/meet_with_critical_jewish_groups_israelis_tell_survey_20110622/

Comment by l wineman on 6/23/11 at 4:22 am

All such surveys need to be taken with a grain of salt and some with a grain of ridicule. I can’t imagine who was asked and how they were asked that question, especially since such a stupid response is buried within more positive findings. That said, just as Zionism has a track record in rehabilitating Jews from the exile, the religious antizionist paoint is proven with Jews and Israelis who were prematurely removed from exile before the point was assimilated that they really do want us dead and winemand and some of those respondents are like house cats that have not learned to survive in the world.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/23/11 at 4:37 am

Is this guy a certified schizophrenic ? a month ago he wrote this (quote below) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-suissa/is-obama-good-or-bad-for-_b_866163.html. Suissa about as consistent as daniel gordis
“Despite my misgivings, I had to recognize that Obama had said plenty of heartwarming things about Israel….

  . .. ..He showed that he has internalized Israel’s security problems… Above all, he adopted the two main principles of Israel’s peace doctrine…: Israel as a Jewish state and Palestine as a demilitarized state.”

Love him or hate him, that’s not a bad list”

Comment by jodie aaronson on 6/23/11 at 12:51 pm

Plonie’s comments on this and other threads reminds me of a comment made to a friend of mine by an Israeli general who was visiting Los Angeles a couple of years after the Six-Day War in which he had been involved. “Americans Jews,” he told her, “are so bloodthirsty they are ready to fight to the last Israeli.” It seems that he had people like Plonie in mind and a few other “contributors” to the JJ comments section in mind.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/23/11 at 1:29 pm

You’re a reg’lar cracker barrel philosopher, ol’ Jeff; why this ‘minds ya o’ this, an’ that ‘minds ya o’ that; the on’y thing ya can’t do is answer me factually and substantively and make any sense and stop lying.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/23/11 at 7:28 pm

Wow. This “reminds him” of a comment made to an anonymous “friend” by an anonymous general who came (or sent on a mission) all the way to America to tell him Jews are “bloodthirsty.” Wow. Now, that’s a change of heart! This guy finally appreciates IDF generals. Amazing.

Comment by Mini on 6/23/11 at 9:14 pm

O’ course. Here is an article supportive of Suissa’s new attitude.
Why is Obama so tough on Israel and timid on Syria?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-is-obama-so-tough-on-israel-and-timid-on-syria/2011/06/19/AGmcB3bH_story.html

and its analysis here
Obama’s knack for handcuffing peace
http://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontLines/Article.aspx?id=224384

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/23/11 at 9:56 pm

The woman that general told and who told me was a prominent member of the LA Hadassah chapter who has since passed away but since you prefer to conduct your conversations in the gutter, Plonie, I’ll keep her name out of it. I do not know the name of the general. I thought it might have been Matti Peled who was also a friend of this woman who was also became a friend of mine but while denying to me that he was the one, he said he agreed with its sentiments.

As for Jackson Diehl, of the Washington Post, he is a well known lickspittle for the Likud line.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/23/11 at 10:28 pm

Some Jews are so caught up in believing the anti Israel narrative that facts curl their former Jewish afro’s. If only they could grasp it’s 2011 and realize time has moved on. Harretz is the Muslim narrative in the facade of the “progressive” movement.  The majority Israelis have leaned that trusting genocidal sociopaths will never work

Comment by Samuel Secularknocker on 6/23/11 at 10:40 pm

Plonie, how dare you bring in some Washington Post lick spittle for the Likud line! Only far-left liberals have credibility, don’t you know?

Comment by Mini on 6/23/11 at 10:47 pm

@Plonie, memorize: Syria (Arabs)=good; Israel(Jews)=bad. Everyone knows that.

Comment by Truth teller on 6/23/11 at 10:55 pm

The distinguished orthodox scholar, Yeshayahu Leibowitz (1903–1994), when there were still distinguished orthodox scholars, warned after the 1967 war, that if Israel did not quickly give up the conquered territories it would become something ugly and he went on to coin the term “Judeo-Nazi” that correctly labeled that ugliness. Those who seem to dominate the JJ comments section have, sadly, proved that good man right. Day by day, Israel is becoming more of a pariah to the world outside it and were it not for US support it would be subjected to sanctions like So. Africa. And what does it do? It bites the hand that feeds it while you say bite harder. That’s what I call a Masada complex.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/23/11 at 11:34 pm

Yet another example from Hollywood Jeff. All hat and no cattle. Sure, sure, friends with a little old lady who knew a distinguished general forty years ago who said that Ben Plonie is wrong. Yeshayahu Leibowitz, also distinguished. All the distinguished people. I am also a distinguished Orthodox scholar and I agree with Jackson Diehl.

Hey, Holly, how about reading the damn article and engaging the ideas in it? No thoughts, just name-dropping. Nobody is impressed. I guess we all lick our spittles of choice. Maybe Leibowitz was a lickspittle if he had such non-Orthodox views.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/24/11 at 2:44 am

Yellena Bonner, the widow of 1975 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Andrei Sakarov: “... Today, I feel Alarm because of the anti-Semitism and anti-Israeli sentiment growing throughout Europe and even further afield.”

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 8:58 am

1975 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Andrei Sakarov: ““All wars that Israel has waged have been just, forced upon it by the irresponsibility of Arab leaders.” “With all the money that has been invested in the problem of Palestinians, it would have been possible long ago to resettle them and provide them with good lives in Arab countries.”
The Quartet, and the Arab countries, and the Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) put additional demands to Israel. I will speak only of one demand: that Israel accept back the Palestinian refugees. And here a little history and demography are needed.

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 8:59 am

[Sakharov cont’d]: “According to the UN’s official definition, refugees are considered those who fled from violence and wars, but not their descendants who are born in another land. At one time the Palestinian refugees and the Jewish refugees from Arab countries were about equal in number — about 700-800,000. The newly-created state Israel took in Jews (about 600,000). They were officially recognized as refugees by the UN Resolution 242, but not provided with any UN assistance.

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 9:00 am

[Sakarov] “Palestinians, however, are considered refugees not only in the first generation, but in the second, third, and now even in the fourth generation. According to the UN Works and Relief Agency’s report, , the number of registered Palestinian refugees has grown from 914,000 in 1950 to more than 4.6 million in 2008, and continues to rise due to natural population growth. All these people have the rights of Palestinian refugees and are eligible to receive humanitarian aid.

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 9:01 am

[Skharov]: “The entire population of Israel is about 7.5 million, of which there are about 2.5 million ethnic Arabs who call themselves Palestinians. Imagine Israel then, if another five million Arabs flood into it; Arabs would substantially outnumber the Jewish population. Thus, created next to Israel will be a Palestinian state cleansed of Jews, because in addition to the demand that Palestinian refugees return to Israel, there is also the demand that Judea and Samaria are cleansed of Jews and turned over to Palestinians – while in Gaza today there is not a single Jew already.”

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 9:02 am

[Sakharov]: “The result is both strange and terrifying, not only because Israel will essentially be destroyed… Because the plan “two states for two peoples” is the creation of one state, ethnically cleansed of Jews, and a second one with the potential to do the same thing. A Judenrein Holy Land – the dream of Adolph Hitler come true at last. So think again, those who are still able, who has a fascist inside him today?
… Returning to my question of why human rights activists are silent, I can find no answer except that Shalit is an Israeli soldier, Shalit is a Jew. So again, it is conscious or unconscious anti-Semitism. Again, it is fascism.”

Comment by Mini on 6/24/11 at 9:03 am

More Zionist propaganda, this with a Russian accent, Mini-mall. What is the big deal with Shalit? Israel holds 9,000 Palestinians, including a number of women and teenagers in their prisons, all of which is in violation of international law which prohibits an occupying power, in this case Israel, from removing residents of the occupied land to their own prisons. Why do we hear nothing about them. If Israel wanted Shalit freed it would make a trade with Hamas as it has done before with Hezbollah.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/24/11 at 9:54 am

Jeff, what a heartwarming feeling when a student outgrow his teacher. Thanks for putting a big smile on my face.

Comment by Adolf on 6/24/11 at 11:45 am

Yes, indeed, the Likud party is filled with Hitler’s children and those Israeli teenagers I saw waving their flags and shouting “death to Arabs” at a recent rally could certainly contest the Hitler Youth for bragging rights.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/24/11 at 4:00 pm

Btw, Antisemite Jeff is a well know poster on the JJ, famous for making up facts, lying about his sources, and a denizen of Stormtrooper and the KKK.  It’s always a question when dealing with pathological Jew haters whether to ignore them or refute them; neither is entirely satisfactory.

Comment by george on 6/24/11 at 6:57 pm

George, you’ve been smelling up this sandbox for several days now so I think I’ll step out, take a shower, and leave it all to you. But you should check out the video from a year ago of Israelis celebrating the murder of 8 Turks and one American on the Mavi Marmara. I know you’ll love it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWha0aMGIlQ&feature=related

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/24/11 at 7:47 pm

Just forgot to slip this under your door, George, before abandoning the privy and this is for Ben and Mini, as well:

Diplomat: I can no longer represent Israel / Ynet
Veteran diplomat Ilan Baruch [Israel’s ambassador to So. Africa] quits, says he can no longer represent government; Israel’s foreign policy is ‘wrong,’ he says, adds that blaming global anti-occupation views on anti-Semitism is ‘simplistic, artificial’ http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4036889,00.html   Enjoy!

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/24/11 at 8:22 pm

AntiSemite Jeff, I guess that because Ilan disagrees with the Israeli government he’s had to flee Israel and is in hiding for fear of his life - oh right, that’s what happens to Arab country dissidents, instead Ilan is quoted in the front page of Israeli papers, sent an email with his views to the entire Israeli diplomatic corps, and is probably going to end up runing an ngo sponsored by the anti semitic New Israeli Fund.  Because Antisemite Jeff, Israel is a democracy, unlike the hellholes you and your fellow Muslims come from.

Comment by george on 6/25/11 at 1:33 pm

How dare you call Brooklyn a hellhole! Bel Aire it ain’t, but now the gloves are off. As well the kippa.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/25/11 at 3:00 pm

The difference between Arab prisoners in Israel and Gilad Shalit is that Shalit was kidnapped across the border while not engaged in a combat role, while the Arabs were all convicted of violent armed hostilities in an orderly process.

Interesting that Arabs are all soldiers until they are caught or killed when they all become civilians; interesting as well that Israelis are all unauthorized until they are victims at which point they become combatant soldiers. Which is it?

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/25/11 at 7:59 pm

I advocate Israel stop trying to prevent a UN recognition of Palestine, announce that it will not recognize it or have any relations with it whatsoever, except that upon the FIRST Arab act of violence against either the Israeli state or Jewish residents of ‘Palestine’, Israel wil invade, conquer, occupy, rule and annex all of Palestine and there will be no citizenship of Arab Palestinians in Israel ever.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/25/11 at 7:59 pm

I also recommend that Silver Bullet Gun Oil be standard issue in the Israeli military. It is rumored that OBL was shot using this oil

HOW does SILVER BULLET GUN OIL work? SILVER BULLET GUN OIL CONTAINS 13% USDA LIQUEFIED PIG
FAT… The PIG FAT is transferred to anything the BULLETS STRIKE. The coating of OIL CONTAINING PIG FAT effectively DENIES entry to Allah’s Paradise to any Islamo-Fascist terrorist KIA with a bullet coming from a firearm using SILVER BULLET GUN OIL in the barrel. SILVER BULLET GUN OIL uses the belief system of Allah’s Islamo-Fascist terrorists to put fear of death into them, a fear they haven’t had until NOW.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/25/11 at 8:07 pm

Ben, something’s not right. I got my 72 virgins. Did Allah err again?

Comment by Osama B.L on 6/25/11 at 8:14 pm

Maybe that’s because you’re not in heaven, dude.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/72virgins_1.JPG

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/25/11 at 8:39 pm

Listen, Phonie, kids and adults are kidnapped, soldiers on active duty are C-A-P-T-T-U-R-E-D. They are not innocents out on a stroll and grabbed by some child molester. Shalit was part of an artillery unit stationed across the Gaza border which had previously shelled Gaza. He was on active duty. The day before Shalit was captured, the Israelis kidnapped two brothers from Gaza. Both civilians. How come we hear nothing about them? Don’t bother answering, I already know why. You and other Jewish supremacists think only Jewish lives have any value. Bro, you’re a poster boy for antisemitism.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/25/11 at 9:19 pm

Schalit was captured in a cross-border raid through a tunnel. The two brothers were Hamas members who provided information the day before about such a planned cross-border kidnapping, which information unfortunately did not prevent it. However that fact validated the decision to interrogate them. Hamas members are by definition not civilians, and their information shows that the raid was planned before their interrogation. The fact that Israel fights with soldiers is a tribute to the discipline and responsibility with which the Jewish state conducts its defense. The fact that you and Hamas weasel out of combatant status when the going gets rough is a tribute to your being weasels.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/25/11 at 10:21 pm

So Antisemite Jeff once again crawls out of his $700/mos. one bedroom Hollywood flat(with one shared bathroom per floor), must have gotten tired beating his wife and listening to KPFK for intellectual reinforcement.  Aren’t we all happy that the welfare that’s keeping him alive is paid for by all of us.

Comment by george on 6/25/11 at 11:00 pm

Ben + George. Please let go. This is purposeless.

Comment by Yuval, Kiryat Tivon Israel on 6/26/11 at 6:45 am

Certainly not. This is a Jewish website, and calling enemies of Israel and the Jews on their propaganda is very important. I don’t go to neoNazi websites to convince them of the Jewish point of view.

Ben
Har Habayis Israel

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/26/11 at 7:14 am

Ben my friend. Let me understand, what are you accomplishing exactly? Preaching to the choir? Jeff is a total loss, not because of our disagreements but because of his insane hate. You can’t change that. Not a good use of your time.

Comment by Yuval, Kiryat Tivon Israel on 6/26/11 at 7:37 am

It’s OK, I do not use my time in a perfectly efficient manner in general. You would be surprised how many people gravitate to a site such as this and assume that uncontested content is irrefutable. I am writing for them; to give ‘Hollywood Jeff’s’ lies some context.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/26/11 at 8:02 am

I assume by your name that you are a sabra, and one unfortunate characteristic of sabras that is a byproduct of secular Zionism is a loss of Galus survival instincts. You think you are normal, you feel normal, and you assume you will be seen and treated as normal. Perhaps the BDS movement is having some effect now, but Moshiach has not arrived, certainly not while the Wakf and Hamas and the PA and Mount of Olives vandals are grinding our heritage into dust because we are too shy and timid to act like a free and confident nation.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/26/11 at 8:02 am

Yuval, you are wise to caution Ben and George to drop out of this conversation because both of them are making fools of themselves, Ben because his attacks on secular Jews reinforce their legitimate fear of intolerant Jewish fundamentalism that is indistinguishable from the Muslim variety, and George, simply because your personal insults make you look like a horse’s ass. In other words neither of you are “good for the Jews.”

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/26/11 at 11:36 am

Nice try, HJ, but you will have to work harder than that. There is no coercion in Judaism. I don’t attack secular Jews, but I do what I can to make them aware of where their background has left them defenseless in a cruel world.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 6/26/11 at 12:11 pm

Ah, AntiSemite Jeff crawls out of his bedsitter in the slums of Hollywood (where he shares his $1.00 per bottle wine with his fellow junkies) and objects to personal insults.  Antisemite, those aren’t insults, they are descriptive; insulting is making demonstrably false statements and lying as a matter of course as you do.  Whether you are Jewish or Muslim, you are a disgusting human being, you are a lost little man in a world that doesn’t acknowledge you, with your desperate seach each month for the $20 or so to pay for cybercafe visits to post your lies.  May you have the life you deserve.

Comment by george on 6/26/11 at 3:29 pm

I’m not sure I have the life I deserve, you pathetic POZG, but it’s certainly one I enjoy. Even an amateur psychologist would conclude that you are simply a failure yourself and are flailing away out of frustration because, as they say in the fight game, you “can’t lay a glove on me.” Actually, I must admit though that you’re entertaining.

Comment by HollywoodJeff on 6/26/11 at 6:21 pm

mr suissa

hope you’re catching the type of rational dialogue your “analyses” generate
thought about switching from huffingtonpost to breitbart…it would be more appropriate

Comment by bemused on 6/26/11 at 8:24 pm

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