David Suissa

March 13, 2011

Behind the Itamar Murders

By David Suissa

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It is fashionable when talking about the “peace process” to focus on hope—to try to nurture the moderate elements among our “peace partners” and constantly inject good faith and good will to keep the process moving “forward.”

Because I crave peace by nature, I’ve always had some sympathy for this approach, which is why I have many friends on the left and why I occasionally take a break from my hard-nosed realism to indulge in more dreamlike and wishful prose.

This is not one of those times.

When I saw the horrifying pictures of the Jewish family members in Itamar who were stabbed to death in their own home— Udi and Ruth Fogel (36 and 35 years old), their children Yoav (11), Elad (4) and Hadas, their 3-month-old daughter— I thought of recent reports on the glorification of terrorism in Palestinian society.

It was impossible not to connect the dots.

In the reports, from Palestinian Media Watch, I learned that Dalal Mughrabi, the terrorist who, in 1978, was responsible for the most lethal attack against Israel, is now immortalized by having the following named for her: two elementary schools, a kindergarten, a computer center, summer camps, football tournaments, a community center, a sports team, a public square, a street, an election course, an adult education course, a university club, a dance troupe, a military unit, a dormitory in a youth center, a TV quiz team and a graduation ceremony.

I also learned that today, a Palestinian child can walk to school along a street named after the terrorist Abu Jihad, who planned a bus hijacking that killed 37, spend the day in a school named after Ahmad Yassin, the man who founded Hamas, play soccer in the afternoon in a tournament honoring terrorist Abd Al-Basset Odeh, who killed 31, and end his day at a youth center named after Abu Iyad, who was responsible for killing 11 Israeli Olympic athletes in Munich.

These are the heroes of Palestinian society—not Abraham Lincolns and Albert Einsteins and Martin Luther Kings, but murderers who crave the spilling of Jewish blood.

Before you rush to defend our “new and improved” Palestinian “peace partners,” note that it was Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas who funded a computer center named after Dalal Mughrabi in 2009, and who supported the naming of the square in her honor in 2010.

“Of course, we want to name a square after her,” he said to Al-Hayat Al-Jadida on Jan.17, 2010.

And who sponsored a sporting event named after one of the most prominent terrorist of all, Abu Jihad, in May 2010? None other than PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the man who is building the “new” Palestine.

Just last year, Mahmoud Al-Aloui, a member of the Fatah Central Committee, said in an interview in Al-Hayat Al Jadida: “It is our right and our duty to take pride in all of the Shahids (martyrs), and it is our duty to convey this message in the most direct manner to the generations to come.”

He wasn’t kidding. Only a month ago, PA President Abbas awarded $2,000 to the family of a terrorist who attacked two Israeli soldiers in December.

And the very day before the Itamar murders, PA presidential advisor Sabri Saidam delivered a speech reported in Al Ayyam, in which he emphasized that “the weapons must be turned towards the main enemy [Israel] and internal differences of opinion must be set aside.”

This glorification of Jew-hatred and murder in the name of martyrdom—which marinates all strata of Palestinian society—is happening under the watchful eyes of our Palestinian “peace partners,” who have convinced most of the world, and many Israel supporters, that the real obstacle to peace is not Palestinian incitement to murder but Jewish building of apartments in East Jerusalem.

Even if you’re a passionate peacenik, you have to admit that this is a joke. What does Jewish construction have to do with a Jew-hatred that has been burned into Arab hearts since before the first settlement or even Israel ever existed?

What else but Jew-hatred can explain the consistent refusal by Palestinian leaders to recognize a Jewish state and prepare their people for the inevitable compromises that peace with Jews will require?

As Sari Nusseibeh once said, “How can we Palestinians expect Israel to think we want co-existence when our position on the refugee issue has been tantamount to a call for Israel’s destruction?”

So, here’s my message to my friends in the peace camp. You’ve done an amazing job of telling the world that a peace agreement with the Palestinians is really, really important, and that Israel is primarily responsible for the absence of this agreement.

In fact, you’ve done such an amazing job of blaming Israel that my friend Gary Rosenblatt, editor of the Jewish Week in New York, wrote last week that Israel has become a “source of embarrassment” for many American Jews. Imagine that.

Well, now you have a chance to make amends and bring some balance to your message.

In honor of the children who were stabbed to death in Itamar, you can release this statement to the world: “It is really, really important, for the sake of peace, that Palestinian leaders eliminate the glorification of terrorism and Jew-hatred that permeates their society, and begin immediately to teach the benefits and compromises of peaceful co-existence with a Jewish state.”

Who’s brave enough in the peace camp to sign their name to that statement?

A version of this article appeared in print.

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Don’t hold your breath, David.

Comment by Amy on 3/13/11 at 6:44 pm

This whole talk is a waste of time. Only Kahane knew what he was talking about. Drive every last choleria yemach shemom into the sea.

Comment by Ben on 3/13/11 at 6:58 pm

I have sent David Surassa’s excellent article to Rabbi John Rosoe and I have asked the Rabbi to rise to the challenge… Hopefully he and J Street will respond to the continual barrage of incitement promoted not only by Hamas but also by the Palestinian Authority… Which to me is the basic cause of the problem. Without that, all else will fall into place.

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/13/11 at 9:16 pm

That Ben is not me, but I advocate conducting a responsible documentation of the grandparents and great grandparents of all claiming to be Palestinian (Israeli citizens of not) and driving them not into the sea but to their ancestral homelands outside of Palestine. No more than a couple of thousand will remain in Israel and they will have the option for a buyin to Israel or a buyout to anywhere they want to go. As I have said many times, carve out a new state of Palistan somewhere else like in Iraq or now Libya, and let them do whatever it is they do there, like take international aid and blow it on corruption.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/13/11 at 9:50 pm

There are no Palestinians. Call them what they are, Arabs. Arabs who came in from ELSEWHERE during the last 100 years or so looking for work from the JEWS as the JEWS were rebuilding Israel.

Until you stop calling them “Palestinians” which perpetuates the lie that “Palestinians” exist and that Israel’s purpose is to make peace with this non-existent entity, incidents like the Fogel family slaughter will continue.

Why? Because THAT is what Arafat created this group of people to DO. Period. Until every last Jew is dead and Israel is gone. Understand now?

Comment by Julia on 3/13/11 at 10:42 pm

I always look forward to reading the views of David Suissa, because he consistently applies compassion with common sense.  People who honor those who kill Israelis and/or Jews are not to be trusted and should not be considered as “peace partner.”

Comment by Cherie on 3/14/11 at 12:56 am

It is about time all the Jews should just come live in Israel. America is a sinking ship. Words are cheap. One hundred thousand Jews should come to live in ITAMAR NOW.
That would certainly make a statement. What could a Rabbi that goes by the name of John do. Are you kidding me? wake up and smell the coffee. John is not a Jewish name.

Comment by Rachel Ginsberg on 3/14/11 at 1:49 am

here’s what mr suissa is calling for
Abbas: Itamar attack was despicable, immoral and inhuman
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/abbas-itamar-attack-was-despicable-immoral-and-inhuman-1.349098

here’s the nif
http://www.nif.org/media-center/executive-director-message/nif-statement-on-itamar.html

here’s a good comment on bibi’s response
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/a-responsible-government-would-calm-not-escalate-1.349046

oh and here is the history of itamar (not in anyway to justify brutal murders)written from their perspective
http://www.shechem.org/itamar/egarinem.html
suissa is going to comment on israel he should do some research

Comment by reality check on 3/14/11 at 5:09 am

David, thank you for your rationality.  But isn’t it clear to you the “J"J is a bought and paid for arm of the Azzajews?  Isn’t their so far only story on the mass murder, which starts with a report of ISRAELI destruction of Palestinian property, and never reports fully on the murders, an example of their pro-terrorist anti Jewish anti Israeli position?  I know its better you continue to write for this disgusting leftist rag than not, but how you must have to hold your nose to be seen in their company!

Comment by george on 3/14/11 at 8:11 am

Hey reality check:  Who the hell cares that Abbas condemns the murders if at the same time the PA glorifies the terrorists that commit them?

Comment by Amy on 3/14/11 at 8:27 am

what is so pathetic about people like george and suissa is that they are so caught up in their preconceptions they cant even read and assimilate a plain english news story (or perhaps they dont know who abbas is) and get their news from their echo chamber even though the israeli news sources are available in english. I’m sure they also dont know about the extensive PA/israel security cooperation common knowledge in israel

folk like you deny reality I send suissa news articles= he refuses to read them

Comment by reality check on 3/14/11 at 8:46 am

Mr. Suissa, why don’t you start with the JJ, the paper of your choice, with its editor and all those wonderful lofty, lefty souls from West LA who support it, carry this message of peace to the Arabs?

Comment by Harvey on 3/14/11 at 9:58 am

Haaretz is not an Israeli news source. It is a foreign news source that is also available in Hebrew, not that anybody reads it. Haaretz is totally in the ag for the enemkies of Israel. Israeli news sources are Ynet, JPost, Israel National News, Maariv, and they are not focusing on that Abbas crap.

Abbas condemned the killings for foreign consumption. He has not condemned them in PA media.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/14/11 at 11:15 am

Plonie, please, please… Haaretz is undeniably liberal with a low circulation, but Israel is a free country, and this paper has a role to play in a democratic society. We are not all think-alike (BTW YNet is also very liberal). The fact that this paper has become the foreign media’s favorite tells more about the media; they could just as easily go to the JPost, but the electively go to Haaretz because it gives them what they want. And as long as there is demand for it, someone will oblige to provide.

Comment by Avi Zirler on 3/14/11 at 11:32 am

the ignorance here is amazing
haaretz has a small circulation but is read by every major decision maker every day and its material is a subject of nat’l debate regularly
no hebrew readers read the jpost it is irrelevant in israel
israel national news from arutz sheva as a news source ? you have got to be kidding
i monitor the hebrew media every day and live in israel halftime. How about the other media experts here ?

Comment by reality check on 3/14/11 at 12:21 pm

I am told that Haaretz has a good business section. That is why Israelis read it. If they read the rest of it they would probably blow up their offices. The reason that foreigners find what they want is because the content originates with foreign agendas and ideologies.

The Jewish Week is also very liberal, which is why I am linking to it instead of a million right wing blogs, not that there is anything wrong with that:

12/28/2007
http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/haaretz_editor_urged_rice_‘rape’_israel

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/14/11 at 12:26 pm

“Mr. Reality”, thank you for sharing with us your enlightening sophistication. We would be othherwise completely lost.

Comment by avi Zirler on 3/14/11 at 12:31 pm

To the so-called Reality Check, we are so impressed with your credentials which even surpass you amazing love for Israel and the Jewish people.

Comment by Mini on 3/14/11 at 12:36 pm

Ur all welcome
A final suggestion
Learn herew
Spend extended time in israel outside of hotels miisions and tour buses
Then draw informed conclusions

Comment by reality on 3/14/11 at 12:50 pm

Haaretz Editor Urged Rice To ‘Rape’ Israel

... comments made by David Landau, editor of the Israeli daily, Haaretz, to Condoleezza Rice
abaout Israel needing to be “raped” by the U.S. to achieve a Mideast settlement caused quite a stir

Landau, who was seated next to Rice, was said to have referred to Israel as a “failed state” politically, one in need of a U.S.-imposed settlement. He was said to have implored Rice to intervene, asserting that the Israeli government wanted “to be raped” and that it would be like a “wet dream” for him to see this happen.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/14/11 at 12:59 pm

...Landau said he had no regrets and that, on the contrary, he was pleased, adding that he was later congratulated by several professors in the room who felt “I articulated what many Israelis feel.”

Get it? You can’t call that playing a role in a democratic society. Democracy really does not include a role for dissolution of the polity. So when Haaretz editorializes about what is best for the country, the Jews, the region and the world, can that opinion be taken seriously? They relentlessly promote a policy of surrender, give up, give in, give away, go away, take away.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/14/11 at 1:00 pm

Mr Reality, you are truly amazing.

Comment by Avi Zirler on 3/14/11 at 1:00 pm

So Haaretz is somewhere between psychotic and traitorous. And if many Israelis feel that way, it must be one,two, three, many. The fact is that Peace Now etc. are trembling in their panties because of a proposed law to force them reveal the sources of their funding (hint - foreign and hostile to Zionism and Israel) In America such organizations would be required to register as foreign agents.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/14/11 at 1:01 pm

Mr. Reality is not just sophisticated, but he is humble too!

Comment by The other Avi on 3/14/11 at 1:49 pm

I’m from the Peace Camp and I sign David’s statement. We also know that Itamar’s Judaism is led by Avichai Ronsky,ex-IDF Chief Rabbi, fired for hate-speech during Operation Cast Lead. Over 300 Palestinian children were killed in Cast Lead- a fact documented by B’Tselem.It’s reasonable to figure that Rosnsky contributed to the disregard of their lives.

Settlement growth undermines Israeli security and makes Palestinians doubt our motives. The core issue that needs to be addressed is the border between Israel and Palestine. Settlers of Itamar want to dominate their neighbors and the glorification of terrorism and Arab-hatred that permeates their society must also be condemned.

Comment by Jacob Wirtschafter on 3/14/11 at 4:01 pm

Relying on preemptive action against an “insane” enemy is your best defence.
Fear of your capability is the only thing which keeps them in check.

Comment by ARMY WAR VETERAN on 3/14/11 at 4:21 pm

experience w/Haaratz began more than a gen ago. left-wing minor pub until teamed w IntlHerald. US media seeking anti-Israeli quotes in Eng from Israel source latched on to them. I found them reprehensible when they would not condemn murder & mutilation of the 2 IDF reservists who were seized by PA authorities &then; lynched and mutilated at police HQ in Ramallah if there is an anti-Israeli view of Israel actions, that will be their leading article &this; will be widely quoted throughout the world as “Israeli sources say”. It is a shame that JJ gives them any regard for accuracy or integrity .they disregard the truth because they have such a left-leaning filter.

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/14/11 at 4:26 pm

Jacob Wirtschafter:Look at the pictures of the victims, especially the six-month-old baby and tell me that the Rabbi and his words were responsible
.
Also, do not rely on any data except that which has been confirmed by the US military on operation cast lead civilian casualties, especially children.

I was a victim of B’tselem in Jenin where I worked w phys for prof resp & PA hospital admi to estimate casualties. PA & B’tselem claimed more than 600, Mostly women and children. It turned out that a number was under 60 & nearly all werefighters. I can send you an Arabic source, bragging about this PA propaganda victory and acknowledging that the casualties were under 60.

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/14/11 at 4:46 pm

To the anti semitic scum on this thread (and I don’t care whether you are Jewish, a Rabbi, or a Nazi) who think that a bogus number of palestinian “children” killed in operation Cast Lead (turns most of them were late teens terrorists) can justify the murder of little Jewish babies, you just better never ever spout those words to my face!

Comment by george on 3/14/11 at 4:59 pm

I am a peace activists with LA Jews for Peace. I will sign Suissa’s statement. I go further to call on Israelis to stop glorification of terrorism (e.g., reverence paid to Baruch Goldstein who murdered 25 Palestinians at prayer), to stop teaching hatred of Palestinians so that Israeli soldiers learn to treat Palestinians as human beings so they will no longer commit war crimes as documented by the Goldstone Commission, & to teach the benefits and compromises of peaceful co-existence so they never again allow an opportunity for peace to pass them by as they did by ignoring the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative & not accepting the generous Palestinian offer documented in the Palestine Papers.

Comment by Jeff Warner on 3/14/11 at 5:25 pm

The Israeli government on Sunday announced the approval of some 500 new housing units in the West Bank, in the settlements of Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim, Ariel and Kiryat Sefer. It doesn’t take a genius to put 2 and 2 together: Israel supports Greater Israel, which means no two-state solution, and the gradual removal or taming of the Palestinians.

Comment by Einstein on 3/14/11 at 5:38 pm

To Jeff Warner still making the moral equivalence argument? Real Baruch Goldstein supporters would fit in your back yard. Peace activists! Declare a “day of rage!” Saying you will no longer pressure Israel until the murderers of the babies that you legitimized, enabled and emboldened are brought to justice. You have been played Jeff. They began in Germany with the Nuremberg laws and ended with the gas chambers. It is getting easier and easier for “Arab Freedom Fighters” to kill Jewish children - in fact they are honored and candy is given out. Jeff good intentions no longer make you a good person. You cannot side with evil and live in a world of delusions.

Comment by Rafael Guber on 3/14/11 at 6:05 pm

In a better world Israelis and Palestinians would be sharing historic Palestine under a new name: PALESTEIN. Or Canaan. In any event the only solution is the one-state solution with a constitution and a democratic system of government. You may call me crazy, but we are not as far off from that day as you think. Because peace, that’s how we like it.

Comment by Einstein on 3/14/11 at 6:11 pm

To Jacob, Einstein, Jeff: if you’re really Muslims purporting to be Jews to make your Jew hatred less obvious, fine, I actually understand that you as Muslims like to murder Jews.  But if the three of you actually are Jewish: a) you disprove the notion that Jews are smart; b) you must not read even leftist papers to have not noticed the ethnic cleansing of Christians throughout the middle east by Muslims; c) you must be charter members of Azzajews, the group whose only use for their Judaism is as a credential for their anti Judaism.

Comment by george on 3/14/11 at 6:24 pm

Well, a few things…  Stay Armed, focused and train your children to watch and listen for anything that is out of the ordinary. The times we live in are like this for me.  I am always armed legally, every room in my home has multiple weapons in them and I am geared to suspect anyone until proven different.  It breaks my heart that this lovely young family won’t get to see and enjoy Purim, Pesach or one more moment in this life.  I want the beast that killed them caught and found VERY guilty.  I am pro-Israel… this wonderful stiffnecked people! That won’t stop, ever.

Comment by Brura on 3/14/11 at 6:55 pm

As long as you have these illegal settlements in the land of Palestinians expect these terror as this is considered defending their land for them. On the other hand we have done far worse to them and their children in their land.
Dont expect them come and give us a hug if we steel their land and make the life impossible for them.
Have you forgotten killing 400 children in Gaza in rush hour?

So you see why Israel has become the most hatred country on this planet? Even Israeli children do not want to live here anymore. It seems we are becoming the victim of our crime.

More illegal settlement= More terror for both sides.

Comment by Noam on 3/14/11 at 6:58 pm

George, you are working yourself out for nothing. Let go. Can’t argue with sick minds.

Comment by Mini on 3/14/11 at 6:59 pm

Mimi, you’re right, I should chill - then I think of those murdered babies and I have to stop myself from going into a rage; then I real those antisemitic scumbags letters (both from Jews and nonJews) and I go into a further rage.  But that isn’t helping anyone.  So you know what I did today?  I gave $$ to AIPAC and to my Rabbi who is sending charity to poor people in the disputed territories.  And I actually feel much better.

Comment by george on 3/14/11 at 7:04 pm

This family was celebrating Shabbat a day the cowards come out to kill.  I believe that terrorists are trying to be in the limelight to garner support from others that hate Jews.  Too many want to be hitler-esque and kill Jewish people for the sport of it. May Hashem protect those that still live in this settlement and my prayers to the relatives of this young murdered family.

Comment by Brura on 3/14/11 at 7:07 pm

Israel exists because it has become a formidable military opponent.  Terrorism is a small form of war.  Those who surround Israel know that
the possibility of massive retaliation is unacceptable .
If Israel is the quietest nuclear power in the world, her enemies cannot risk realizing her wrath by provoking the unthinkable.  Murders are not war. Terror is not world changing, only provocation for the politicians.
As horrible as the recent murders are, they pale to the
millions who die of hunger and disease, forgotten.
Israel will survive, with or without"peace”.  She is the only true democracy in the Middle East and murder is sometimes the price one pays, unfortunately, for freedom.

Comment by Benjamin Sperber on 3/14/11 at 7:28 pm

weekday daily newspaper circ 500,000-600,000.most Israelis read more than one.
Al Anba The News 10,000; Globes 40,000;  Ha’aretz The Land; 65,000-75,000; Hadashot The News; Al Hamishmar The Guardian; Hamodia The Informer;  25,000; Hatzofeh The Watchman; 60,000;Israel Nachrichten News of Israel;  20,000; Al-Itihad Unity;  60,000;The Jerusalem Post 30,000-50,000; , Le Journal d’Israël 10,000; Letzte Nyess Late New.23,000; Ma’ariv Evening Prayer 160,000-270,000;  Mabat 7,000; Nasha Strana Our Country 35,000 ;Al-Quds Jerusalem;  55,000;Ash Shaab The People;SheariThe Gates; Uj Kelet 20,000; Viata Noastra 30,000; Yated Ne’eman 25,000; Yedioth Aharonoth The Latest News; 300,000-600,000

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/14/11 at 9:21 pm

howard

anyone that knew anything about israel would now these numbers must be ancient they dont even mention the highest circulation newspaper in israel Yisrael Hayom (it’s free) Al hamishmar ceased publication in 1995

why bother if you know nothing
par for the course here

Comment by reality check on 3/14/11 at 10:30 pm

Reality check: I tried to summarize a multipage entry in Wikipedia into less than 700 characters

yourHaaratz citation was misleading. It did not include Abass full remarks which was more an attack on the IDF than the expression of horror at the atrocity

Data is available from the BBC and from numerous other sources. But too long and too detailed to include.

RAND has a complete account of the 287 Israelis murdered from terrorists coming from the West Bank before the 1967 war. There were no supplements then. What is your justification for this.

why must the left-wing always engage in personal insults and personal attacks?

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/14/11 at 10:55 pm

REALITY CHECK:There were no settlements then. (Correction to text above)

What did the attack on a Jewish rabbi and his wife inMumbi s have to do with Jewish “settlements” on the West Bank? Pakistan’s Jewish Problem Tufail Ahmad,  MEMRI.  In a country with no Jewish presence to speak of, opinion makers are deepening the anti-Semitic mindset that is typical across the Islamic world. 

Pakistan’s Jewish Problem Tufail Ahmad,  MEMRI.  In a country with no Jewish presence to speak of, opinion makers are deepening the anti-Semitic mindset that is typical across the Islamic world.

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/14/11 at 11:22 pm

I am also from the Peace Camp. But I am not for Peace Now. I am for Peace Forever. Peace Forever means a stable and sustainable situation, not a few liars in a room sitting on a pressure cooker while the heat is being increased.

I am also for a One State Solution. The One and only original Holy Land of Israel, all of it, as a homeland for the Israelites.

Jacob: Ther can be no border between Israel and Palestine because Palestione is Israel and Israel is Palestine. Palestine was a foreign designation for Israel before there were any Arabs in it. Jews were the only Palestinians then and now, no matter what the propaganda says.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/15/11 at 12:13 am

Jeff
The Suissa article is devoted to Arab glorification of terrorism. The Baruch Goldstein issue is a red herring. A Palestinian offer is an oxymoron. Palestinians have nothing to offer Israel, never owned it, don’t own it and never will. They are entitled to human rights, but not civil rights in a Jewish state and certainly no national rights. They all have to go home to their ancestral homelands outside of Jewish Palestine.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/15/11 at 12:21 am

Einstein
‘taming of the Palestinians’ - that’s a good one. Even you are calling them wild. But PALESTEIN is lame. What is needed is to break Iraq up into its natural divisions: Jihadistan, Sunnistan, Kurdistan, and a new country called PALISTAN to where all the phony troublemaking PA and Hamas savages can be shipped out of the Jewish homeland. There they can dream of jihad and heavenly virgins and kill each other in peace.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/15/11 at 12:28 am

As I said to Jeff, illegal Jewish settlement anywhere in the fullest historic extent of Greater Israel is an oxymoron. On the other hand, the Arab occupation must end before speaking of peace. You used the words ‘their land’ at least three times in your post. Arabs don’t get to have land in Jewish Greater Israel. It is people like you who prolong the conflict by raising false hope and false expectations among the Arabs.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/15/11 at 12:33 am

reality check
the highest circulation newspaper in israel Yisrael Hayom

A right-wing paper, as far from Haaretz as you can get.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/15/11 at 12:39 am

SO MUCH FOR PA SYMPATHY

PA leaders implied Itamar not terror attack.  Foreign Min Riyad al-Malki said no Palestinian had ever murdered an infant or civilians in such a manner, either for nationalist causes or in revenge, “which raises doubts regarding Israel’s haste to accuse the Palestinian.
all the signs indicate the Itamar massacre was a terror attack.
Malki disregarded dozens of attacks by Palestinian terrorists - intent on killing children, women and old people. In Nov 2002, Sirhan Sirhan entered a house in Kibbutz Metzer and murdered a mother and her two children, aged 4 and 5, after killing another man and woman. This is just one example of several.& THE PASS BABY

Comment by HOWARD LAITIN on 3/15/11 at 12:58 am

Someone needs to get the memo to Obama. This must get done by lobbying our congressman. Aipac is a good avenue for that. As far as Europe, we’re f’d. That’s hopeless, and so is Hollywood for that matter. They are so blinded by the romantic notion of peace, their ignorance lives peacefully with their laziness and actual apathy. We must rally our congressman!

Comment by schnitzel on 3/15/11 at 1:17 am

A majority of the posts following this and Mr. Elgrably’s article support settlements, the occupation and ethnic cleansing of Arabs. And people say the Jews are smart! In the words of many a gever, oy vey. Let’s do to them what they did to us in Europe in the ‘40s. Because that worked.

Comment by Einstein on 3/15/11 at 1:46 am

Einstein, let me remind you of the violent history of the USA and that you are sitting on a land which is arguably not yours. Do your own soul searching and leave other people alone. I oppose ethnic cleansing, but you’re not seemed alaramed by Elgrably’s one-state solution though it will lead to ethnic cleansing of Jews. You and Elgrably reflect a selective morality which is hypocritical and disgusting. Go pound sand

Comment by Mini on 3/15/11 at 9:01 am

Im a Muslim, I don’t hate Jews or anybody, and I feel horrible about the family who was killed .On the other hand, if you have any humanity realize what your government has done to an entire people, for God’s sake ask your government to stop the settlements and earn the worlds’ respect.  Peace:)

Comment by H on 3/15/11 at 9:11 am

Dear H, since I am in principle for a 2-state solution, you realize that I agree with you that the settlements are not conducive to peace with the Pal’s. OK? But I disagree with your overtone of desparation. The settlements are hardly the reason why we do not have peace. The Pal’s want Israel proper and right of return. Baby, no deal.

Comment by Mini on 3/15/11 at 9:21 am

In honor of the children who were stabbed to death in Itamar, you can release this statement to the world: “It is really, really important, for the sake of peace, that Palestinian leaders eliminate the glorification of terrorism and Jew-hatred that permeates their society, and begin immediately to teach the benefits and compromises of peaceful co-existence with a Jewish state.”

agreed, but should also read AND DONT DARE CRITISIZE actions taken by the state of Israel, because that makes you by default a Jew hater and a terrorist????

Comment by H on 3/15/11 at 11:56 am

@“H”, you are exactly right. If you intend send a back-handed condolences to someone who is still grieving and mourning, you are a hypocrite, a phony and inhumane. Save your crocodile tears for someone else, we don’t need them. It doesn’t matter whether you are a Jew or an Arab; if you do that you are also an anti-Semite.

Comment by Mini on 3/15/11 at 12:41 pm

What ideas are there for circulating this quote as a PETITION SIGNED BY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE to the PA,  to Hamas , to the UN, TO US STATE DEPARTMENT?
“It is really, really important, for the sake of peace, that Palestinian leaders eliminate the glorification of terrorism and Jew-hatred that permeates their society, and begin immediately to teach the benefits and compromises of peaceful co-existence with a Jewish state.”

Comment by gary jacobson on 3/15/11 at 4:16 pm

Abbas: Itamar attack was despicable, immoral and inhuman. This is how most Israelis and Jews and Christian Zionists see Palestinians if not all Arabs and now Muslims as terrorists not fit to live on the same earth. The American settlers felt the same way about native Americans (“Redskins”,) whose land they also usurped as a Divine right. These savages killed and murdered women and children without appreciating the civilization of their occupiers and now live on reservations as alcoholics and drug addicts. Jew hatred is for arrogance and pride despite worthy contributions.

Comment by ameer on 3/16/11 at 1:56 am

The lefties are inclined to believe the Muslim propaganda and not follow what they say in Arabic.  They do not want peace, they wanted to destroy Israel and murder Jews long before Israelis lived beyond the 48 armistice lines.  Why would any Jew put Muslim propaganda ahead of Jewish lives. Wanting to believe in peace doesn’t mean accepting the death of Jews is OK.

Comment by Lou Adams on 3/16/11 at 6:35 am

For those who believe a people can negotiate with Muslims for peace, look at the history of India and tell me how that one worked out. The Muslims there are still looking to dominate and murder Hindus, reality is hard to accept for those who think everyone has the same values and desires as they do. Jews need to remember the PLO was founded in 1964, surrendering the all of Judea and Sumeria will NOT result in peace.

Comment by Lou Adams on 3/16/11 at 6:40 am

Ameer, The land of Israel belongs to the Jews since the days of Abraham some 4000 years ago. there is no way we can live together. It has never worked out with Arabs. Just look at Lebanon. Now, we can split the land and live in peace, or you can continue complain until the cows come home. As you can see, Israel is doing quite well without your cooperation. I wish the same on you.

Comment by Mini on 3/16/11 at 9:15 am

מוות לערבים

Comment by yoni on 3/16/11 at 10:20 pm

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/a-funeral-for-the-state-of-israel-1.349831

For the rest of us, it seemed to be saying, if possible, something even worse:

This is exactly what you can expect. This is your future. An endless procession of killings and escalation and enmity and settlement and condemnation and heartbreak and no negotiations and a broken Jewish people and no compromise and more settlement and a shattered Judaism, until the day that a vote is taken and the Palestinians are more numerous than we, and the flag which is based on the prayer shawl and the Shield of David is pulled down for the last time.

Comment by reality check on 3/17/11 at 10:59 pm

Yes, I caught that too. Here is my talkback to that statement on Haaretz -

Until the day? Are you nuts?
  * Ben Plonie
  * 17.03.11
  * 21:34

“... This is what it’s about with you, every column and every week. The funeral for the state of Israel. Not terrorism, not children. However you are wrong as usual. In the time and place when the flag is lowered, there will be more terrorism, more dead children. There is a direct relationship. Not all Palestinians are evil savages. But they use their evil savages against us. Just as Haaretz uses OUR evil savages against us too.

btw, reality, are you Jewish? Just asking.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/17/11 at 11:05 pm

Thank you for this excellent article… a lone voice - but strong and true.

Comment by Laura on 3/25/11 at 11:24 am

We can reside in the world of polemics and slogans like mr suissa, or in one of complexity and reality”

“...everyone came to the funeral of the Fogel family members murdered in the West Bank settlement of Itamar,

. Almost all were united in what they deemed the appropriate response to terrorism: building new settlements and neighborhoods.

the voice of Motti Fogel, Udi’s older brother, stood out. “If I could, I would get rid of everyone here ” ...you are not a symbol or a national event,...  we must not let your terrible death become a tool, no matter what for.”

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-private-side-of-a-public-tragedy-1.351740

Comment by l wynman on 3/28/11 at 10:53 am

Everything can be seen as complex, but when things are so complex that it is impossible to continue, there are misplaced priorities involved. Motti Fogel is a very appealing and sincere character and undeniably intelligent, but that doesn’t mean he has the answers. He is also undeniably confused. He did study philosophy after all. This is important, but this, but that, but the other.

He is right that the tragedy has a private side, but for the 20,000 people attending the funeral who did not know Udi and his family, they were not there for that. Udi may have been living in Gush Katif and Itamar for private reasons, but more likely for larger reasons in common with others like him.

Comment by Ben Plonie on 3/28/11 at 7:31 pm

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