Culture

August 23, 2011

‘Rachel Corrie’ on stage: agitprop or art?

By Tom Tugend

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“The American Jewish community has a problem keeping silent,” says scholar Michael Berenbaum, and he ascribes the “problem” to guilt over our collective failure to speak up during the Holocaust.

In a very different time and on a vastly different scale, the option of silence versus public protest faces Los Angeles Jews in advance of the opening of a play many view as anti-Israel propaganda.

The one-woman play, “My Name Is Rachel Corrie,” will open Sept. 1 at the Will Geer Theatricum Botanicum, an outdoor venue in Topanga Canyon. Although it is hardly a prominent theatrical event for a cultural mecca like Los Angeles, its focus on a controversial historical figure from Israel’s recent history raises questions of artistic freedom and historical balance.

Rachel Corrie, who grew up in a liberal, non-Jewish family in Olympia, Wash., traveled during the Second Intifada to the Gaza Strip as part of an activist movement to “shield” Palestinian inhabitants from the Israeli army.

She was killed March 16, 2003, at age 23, while confronting an army bulldozer assigned to demolish a house believed to harbor hostile militants. Some allege the bulldozer driver killed Corrie on purpose because she would not move out of the way. Others say the driver did not see her and ran over her accidentally.

The dramatic circumstances of this young American woman’s death in the midst of a widely covered conflict quickly turned the incident into an international cause célèbre.

Corrie, a compulsive writer, left behind a huge cache of diary entries and e-mail letters, which two Londoners, actor/director Alan Rickman and journalist Katherine Viner, have edited into a 70-minute play.

“My Name Is Rachel Corrie” opened in London in 2005 to full houses and glowing reviews. A planned New York premiere in early 2006, at the nonprofit New York Theatre Workshop, met a different fate, however.

The timing of the New York opening was inauspicious. It was a moment when the always-heated emotions surrounding the

Israeli-Palestinian conflict had been intensified by Hamas’ election victory in Gaza, a group listed as a terrorist organization by Israel and the United States. The play’s intended opening also coincided with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s massive stroke, which left the Israeli leader in a coma.

So, before opening the play, James Nicola, artistic director of the New York theater, decided to poll local Jewish religious and community leaders as to their feelings about the work, according to a New York Times report.

Nicola concluded that the announced play “has made this community very defensive and very edgy … and it seems reasonable to me to postpone the opening indefinitely.”

Nevertheless, the play opened later that year at a commercial theater in Greenwich Village, and that production left New York Times critic Clive Davis cold.

“An element of unvarnished propaganda comes to the fore … with no attempt to set the violence in context,” Davis wrote. “We are left with the impression of unarmed civilians being crushed by faceless militarists.”

In a rebuttal, Viner, the play’s co-editor, defended her work as “a piece of art, not a piece of agitprop.”

Various productions of the play have since been staged in Seattle, Chicago, Australia and Ireland.

Perhaps with the unhappy New York experience in mind, the Theatricum Botanicum’s board decided to do some advance outreach to the local Jewish community, with veteran character actor Alan Blumenfeld, a longtime board member, volunteering to make the contacts.

In an interview with The Jewish Journal, Blumenfeld noted that, so far, attention has focused on Corrie’s dramatic end, rather than on her life. In assessing the play, he said, “I think it is important to figure out who she was and what she tried to do — separate from her death.”

In one of her diary entries, the then-21-year-old Corrie describes herself as “scattered, deviant and too loud.” Susan Angelo, who directs actress Samara Frame in the upcoming production, sees Corrie as a rather naïve young woman who knew little about the Middle East conflict and could have gone to any global hot spot in her search “to make her life meaningful.”

Co-editor Viner, in an epilogue to the play’s script, sums up Corrie as “messy, skinny, Dali-loving, list-making, chain-smoking, with a passion for the music of Pat Benatar.”

A reading of the play shows Corrie portrayed as an intelligent, idealistic, super-imaginative and introspective teenager and young woman, who strove, somewhat self-consciously, to appear unconventional.

In trying to evaluate the Jewish community’s mood, Blumenfeld spoke with representatives of the Progressive Jewish Alliance, the Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles and the Israel-advocacy group StandWithUs.

Blumenfeld said he found the representatives of all three groups friendly and forthcoming. As a result of the discussions, representatives from the community will provide audiences with factual written material and participate in “audience talk-back” sessions following all four performances of the play.

In an interview, Patsy Ostroy, founding president of the Progressive Jewish Alliance, said she had not seen the play but she anticipated “a negative reaction in the Jewish community,” while at the same time fully defending the play’s right to be heard and seen.

Catherine Schneider, Federation’s senior vice president of community engagement, said she had expressed her deep concern about the possible impact of the “play’s misinformation” on audiences, but also explored with Blumenfeld possible future stagings of other works at Theatricum Botanicum, perhaps by young Israeli authors.

Roz Rothstein, CEO of StandWithUs, a group that on its Web site describes its mission as fighting the “delegitimization of Israel,” expressed concern about the play’s approach: “I can fully understand that Rachel’s parents are heartbroken …  but the play itself consists of one-sided anti-Israel propaganda.”

StandWithUs does not advocate a boycott of the play, she said, but it will distribute to audiences a leaflet featuring pictures of eight Israeli women, all also named Rachel, who have been killed in terrorist attacks.

Although the Simon Wiesenthal Center was not part of Blumenfeld’s advance discussions, its founder and dean, Rabbi Marvin Hier, said that based on Israel’s record and government investigation of the case, he is convinced Corrie’s death was accidental.

“In a free country, the producers of the play have every right to put it on,” Hier said, “but to any friend of Israel, I would say, ‘Don’t see it.’ ”

Veteran peace and civil-rights activist Gerald Bubis also emphasized the right of any play to present its message, nevertheless predicting that “the more Jews attack the play, the more publicity it will get.

“My advice about the play is leave it alone, leave it alone,” Bubis said. “If it’s good, it’ll survive; if it’s bad, it won’t. In either case, nothing will happen to the Jews.”

Two telling evaluations came from theatrical producers who have had their own struggles with controversial plays.

Howard Teichman, artistic director of the West Coast Jewish Theatre, recalled that two years ago he wanted to put on “Behind the Gates” by Wendy Graf, much of it set in Jerusalem’s ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim quarter.

Though Teichman considered the play “brilliant,” when he presented the project to his board, a majority turned it down, concerned that the contents would offend religious sensibilities. “I still think one of the theater’s missions is to present all points of view,” he said.

Gordon Davidson, who served for nearly four decades as artistic director of the Center Theatre Group, staged “The Devils” by John Whiting as his very first production. Among other topics, the play dealt with religious hysteria and sexual repression among 17th century nuns and priests, and the reaction by the Catholic Church and powerful politicians almost aborted Davidson’s career at its start.

“I realize that a given play may cause anger and hurt, but if I chose it on its merits, I have to take the responsibility,” Davidson said. “And what better exercise in democracy can there be?”

So far, the Jewish community, or that segment aware of the Rachel Corrie play, is generally taking its upcoming performance with equanimity.

Blumenfeld said that the theater sent out notices of the play’s schedule to its mailing list of 4,000, and just seven came back with e-mailed comments.

“Three said, ‘I’m excited and will attend,’ ” Blumenfeld said. “Two responded with, ‘I am concerned about the play. Can we discuss this?’ And two more messaged, ‘How dare you put this on? I’ll never set foot in your theater again.’ ”

Performances of “My Name is Rachel Corrie” are on successive Thursday evenings, Sept. 1, 8, 15 and 22, at the Theatricum Botanicum’s S. Mark Taper Foundation Pavilion, located at 1419 N. Topanga Canyon Blvd., midway between Pacific Coast Highway and the Ventura Freeway. For tickets ($12 each) and information, phone (310) 455-3723, or visit www.theatricum.com.

A version of this article appeared in print.

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It is a sad state of affairs for the right wing military state Israel when harmless peace activists and a non fiction play are considered a threat.  Peace threatens Israel- what does that tell you about its policies?

Rachel Corrie was a brave person trying to protect innocents.  I wish I could say the same for the Zionist lobby.

Comment by larry daoud on 8/23/11 at 8:51 pm

For a glimpse at the “real” Rachel Corrie, click here: http://www.peacewithrealism.org/images/corrie01.jpg

Mr. Daoud, she was not a brave person trying to protect innocents, she was a naive young woman duped by the ISM into “protecting” a tunnel through which many materials were “imported” into Gaza, among which were armaments.

Regarding the “Other Rachels” poster, thank you for printing that.  No one talks about the other Rachels, or the other innocent Israelis who have been killed simply for being Jewish.

Comment by Grantman on 8/25/11 at 1:15 pm

First of all, there is no question of artistic freedom and anything.  Artists are not required to be “historically balanced.”  True art should distrub and astonish, and that is frequently done by being one-sided and intentionally provocative.  Although we Jews often fee that either the rules don’t apply to us or we’re entitled to special rules, neither is true.  Second of all, this is pretty much a tree falling in a forest (literally, in Topanga), and will not be heard by many.

Comment by Mitch Paradise on 8/25/11 at 1:15 pm

One small comment on the “Other Rachels” poster.  The last sentence reads, “...it was a tragic but unavoidable accident.” 

Actually, it was *completely* avoidable.  She just had to get out of the way, or not have been there in the first place.

Comment by Grantman on 8/25/11 at 1:17 pm

There are Right rights and there are Wrong rights!!!
...of course they have the right to produce a one sided anti-Israel piece of propaganda and call it a play…..however we also have rights….the right NOT to go to the play…the right NOT to attend Ellen Geer’s Theatricum Theatre again…..The right NOT to attend movies with Alan Rickman in them, etc.
In this country all rights are not always right!!!

Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/25/11 at 1:45 pm

Tom, your article is thorough—thank God for Stand With Us—but it sadly provides advanced and counter-productive publicity for a piece of polemic that has already been put in its place as propagandistic trash. It might have been more appropriate to have published it during its run, thus being a bit late to enhance its already (we hope)precarious box-office. But I suspect Bob Eshman has his reasons for selecting this item from among the myriads of events that make “news” not highlighted either by Reuters or Al Jazeera. And, of course, now our “yefei nefesh” Jews will flock to see it.

Irv White

Comment by Irving S. White on 8/25/11 at 2:23 pm

Paradise Lost….
“Shock and Awe” suited for Iraq. The artist’s chief employ is HONESTY. Think Van Gogh’s Starry, Starry, Night; Venus de Milo, The Mona Lisa;  all beauty expressed through the creator’s uniquely trained eye and steady hand. 
The greats have their darker moments. “After the Fall” an Arthur Miller copout.

Jews possess only one set of rules, “The Ten Commandments”. What nation requires more?

Let the play prevail or fail on its own merit-that will suffice. Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/25/11 at 5:47 pm

Rachel Corrie was a stupid misguided girl, and unfortunately so are her parents—otherwise she wouldn’t have been killed.  The people who publish this play—although freedom of speech allows them to, should be ashamed of themselves for being so dishonest.  i have faith that the good people will see it for what it is—lies and propaganda for the terrorists who kill the good Rachels.

Comment by jinny on 8/25/11 at 7:20 pm

3 people will see the play.  2 of them will be imposters.

Comment by wm. goldstein on 8/25/11 at 8:18 pm

The driver of that Bulldozer himself claimed that he saw her and he did it because he had the “order”.

That was not a house that suspicious militant were ther but a normal family house being bulldozed as a part of 20 000 other family houses…
Who would demolish a house with militant in it with a bulldozer?

There are several other American peace activists who were killed by IDF who Jewish blood were amoung them too.

Now who is stupid? Who is making propaganda?

Can you see why people hate Israel more than anyother country on the face of the planet Earth?

Comment by Propaganda Fghter on 8/25/11 at 9:14 pm

No one wants peace more than Israel, and no one has done more to try to secure peace.  rachel was not a “peace” activist, she was a pawn in the hands of the terrorists.  And you are wrong.  most people who are not “jew haters”  love Israel and all that she stands for.

Comment by jinny on 8/25/11 at 9:35 pm

She was a stupid naive young woman who was used by terrorists for their own purposes. Maybe with years she might have matured, or maybe not. She put herself in front of a bulldozer which was demolishing a house that was the terminus of smuggling tunnels—- tunnels used for weapons and explosives to murder innocent Israelis and Arabs. Since then her parents have spent all their time on Israel-bashing activities. What a disgusting bunch.

Comment by Davidka on 8/25/11 at 9:53 pm

What I really can’t understand about this whole discussion is why in this “Jewish Forum” provided by the Jewish Journal (thank you) with all the various Jewish voices on both sides…there also seems to be two outsiders with anti-Israel and I suspect also anti-semitic views. I also suspect them to be arab supporters…the question is why the hell are they reading the JEWISH journal???

Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/25/11 at 9:55 pm

Tom Tugend—

That was one of your best articles, fairly reporting all points of view, and there were many.

It is amusing that so many of the rabid JJ readers are offended by your responsible effor to cover the story.

Silence by the rest of the world killed the Jews of Europe.  Many of their offsproing have not learned the lesson that the benefits of free speech outweigh the pain.

Once again, Againster and I are together.  The play will die a predictable death on its own.  It does not need hysterics like Davidka, Nate or Ira to condemn it.

Comment by The Logician on 8/25/11 at 10:39 pm

Logician you miss your own point…
The play was conceived as propaganda not as art…as propaganda it is a danger…repeat a lie often enough and what happens???...ask Herr Hitler!!! Silence by the Jews is what killed the Jews Mr. illLogician and that is precisely why we are protesting here!!!

Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/25/11 at 10:51 pm

Nate Goldstein misses the obvious:

The reason “two outsiders with anti-Israel and I suspect also anti-Semitic views… read the JEWISH journal” is that the Jewish Journal’s content is often as viciously leftist and anti-Israel, and bereft of true Jewish values, as their own views.

Comment by Davidka on 8/26/11 at 10:24 am

the naive girl was associated with a viciously anti Semitic group who hid and covered for terrorists. http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000636.html The real question; where does art end and propaganda start.

Comment by Lou Adams on 8/26/11 at 1:18 pm

That’s BS, Davidka!! Those people are sticking their noses where they don’t belong…probably the same ones that write vicious anti-Israel letters to the Times constantly!!!
I don’t see a problem with Jews argueing with Jews…But I object with “outsiders throwing in their 2 cents”....when they attack ISRAEL it gets personal!!!!!! 

We’re secular but culturally very Jewish… yet we enjoy seeing the “crazies” orthodox walking Pico/Robertson, Valley Village & in Jerusalem…that’s because they are the “Keepers of the Flame”...however they too step over the line when they damn Israel & refuse to serve in the IDF because the m——h hasn’t returned yet.

Comment by Nate ...originally from "Boyle Heights" on 8/26/11 at 1:50 pm

Agreement twice cited by The Logician has put my pen into idle as future prospects examined.

What surprises is the anger and inferred resolution by the usually clear-thinking Lou Adams who seems to embrace Nate Goldstein’s fiery comments.

Jew’s silence didn’t kill them in the Holocaust;  The World’s silence, sadly including our nation’s-did! As to propaganda distilled as truth I offer—Santa Claus, The Good
Tooth Fairy,  Humpty Dumpty and the conspiracy theories offering that Elvis and now Bin Laden are alive. Before you lose it totally Mssrs. Goldstein & Adams you might wish to recall
The Nazi Book Burnings. Does that then give you pause? Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/26/11 at 1:55 pm

Nate—

All art is admittedly political and you see it as propoganda because you want to, or perceive the message to be distasteful.

But what is possible here is to correct the nasty knee-jerk bias and blindenss of Nate and others.

It’s bad enough Againster and I have to unite against fools like Nate.  The Ultra-Orthodox are not keepers of the flame….they are destroyers of the dream of Jewiish survival.

They are extremists who condemn even Israel.  If you want to keep the flame alive be civil, careful and always try to see the “other side.”  You may live next to him some day.

Comment by The Logician on 8/26/11 at 5:01 pm

Ahhh Mr. Againster…of course it was the world at fault…BUT also remember in those times the Jews here and around the world weren’t burning up the print media (as we are doing here) & the airwaves because they were being killed…“we don’t wanna cause trouble”!
IF YOU DON’T SPEAK UP FOR YOURSELF…THEN WHO WILL???? Check out that old movie: Gentlemans Agreement.

Comment by Nate on 8/26/11 at 6:18 pm

...and my dear FOOLISH Logician ....read what I said…..
the crazies “they damn Israel & refuse to serve in the IDF”  to defend themselves and they also live off the charity of mostly secular Israel…because they must study the Torah. However it’s that fact, that they won’t let go of the original religion that keeps the FLAME of the religion ALIVE.  But it is absolutely the seculars Will keep Israel alive. So maybe the real fact is for Judaism & Israel to survive we need both of them.
By the way I was an Advertising Art Director for 40 years so don’t tell me about propaganda & art!!!

And my dear Logician…thou calleth me a fool???...

Comment by Nate on 8/26/11 at 6:24 pm

BY THE WAY…with all this fun of verbal masterbation back & forth I think someone should thank the Jewish Journal for providing us all with a forum
...AND the person who called the Journal “viciously leftist and anti-Israel” should find another outlet for their wrong headed thoughts.

Comment by Nate on 8/26/11 at 6:31 pm

The leaflet on the murdered Rachels should be distributed everywhere in the world where this blatantly Israel-bashing “play” is being shown.

Comment by Earl. on 8/26/11 at 7:36 pm

Mr. Goldstein

So it’s your way or the highway; believing your “thoughts” have sole validity. May be why no reply my comments on the the Nazi Book Burnings; you don’t see your penchant to dismiss those disagreeing with you.

As to thanks, you have it mixed-up. Kudos belong to readers and responders to TJJ
for-profit magazine. We are the ones supporting their existence, so I’d imagine they welcome all participants to the forum. I’d have thought a self-labeled “Advertising Art Director” to be well-acquainted with that fact. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly Nate. In free societies all welcome to express their opinions. Or might you demand it otherwise? Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/27/11 at 3:44 am

Dear Auntie Mame..try not to get your britches in a twitter!!!...We all know the significance of the book burnings… I said you can’t depend on the rest of the world protecting you…especially with the “long love affair” they’ve had with us…if you can’t see that just climb on the cattle cars right now!!!
The Jews today are a different breed (or maybe the times have just changed) we’re not the sheep we once were!!! Maybe we owe that to the state of Israel which is why we must protect it.
As for TJJ… their profit comes from Advertising bucks not from a bunch of olde farts letting off steam with letters to the editor!!! As a “self labeled” Auntie Mame you should know that!!!

Comment by Nate on 8/27/11 at 7:09 am

Aainster—

Thanks for that thoughful and courteous reply to someone as defensive as Nate.  You are on a roll!

Comment by The Logician on 8/27/11 at 8:24 am

Nate—

Many New Jews carry it to an extreme and sometimes sound like their oppressors of the past.  That was againster’s point.

Yes, protect Israel without allowing it the humanitarian and political excesses of it’s policies.

Jews maintain their painfully won moral and political currency in the world ONLY if they take the high road and try to behave BETTER than their “enemies”.

Condemn violence, terror and injustice wherever it occurs.  Do not generalize about a group of people that are very diverse.  Work to see things from THEIR point of view and not impose on them the status of the “OTHER”.

The source of evil is the human heart and we must be vigilant…try a mirror.

Comment by The Logician on 8/27/11 at 8:29 am

Logician…. I absolutely agree with you….in the best of all worlds…. Unfortunately if your enemies don’t play by the same rules…you end up like Danny Pearl.

Years ago, terrorists in Lebanon took our CIA man in Beirut hostage and murdered him. 
Then the terrorists took Russian Diplomats hostage.  A few days later a box arrived at terrorist headquarters with the head of the lead terrorists brother in it along with a note “release Russians unharmed or we’ll send you the rest of your relatives”!!!
The Russians were immediately released and didn’t suffer another kidnapping again.
Obviously the Russians got it right, you gotta fight fire with fire…sugar ain’t gonna do it.

Comment by Nate on 8/27/11 at 10:21 am

In the words of that great philosopher, Sean Connery in “The Untouchables”...If you really wanna beat the mafia this is how you do it…He picks up a stick…you pick up a bat…he picks up a knife , you pick up a gun…...he straps on an explosive belt, you climb into an F-16…That’s how you beat the Mafia!!!
We’re living here safely, in Los Angeles while In Israel it’s life or Death…they don’t have the luxury of getting it wrong…they have to be strong or They Will Die.

Comment by Norm of Newbury Park on 8/27/11 at 10:25 am

If there were a few “Bear Jews” running around Munich in the ‘20’s I suspect herr schickelgrubber would have ended up in flames a lot sooner!!!

...also…If it weren’t for the Stern Gang and the Irgun I suspect Israel would have missed the boat in 1948!!!

(looked like ol Nate from Boyle Heights was getting beat up on ...thought I’d lend a hand)

Comment by Norm of Newbury Park on 8/27/11 at 10:55 am

You cannot compromise or negotiate with terrorists. They must be destroyed and their organizations broken up. That is how the U.S. put an end to the Tripoli piratical activity. That is how the West could end the Somalian piracy today if it had the guts. Ditto other Muslim terrorism.

Some people are evil and the only solution is to kill them and make sure they stay killed.

And Norm of Newbury Park is correct that the Irgun and Stern Group played a huge role in Israel’s winning independence from the British occupier. A role that is shamelessly silenced by Israel’s ruling liberal elite.

Comment by Davidka on 8/27/11 at 6:35 pm

Davidka—

Can;t blame “liberals” for all of Israel’‘s problems or your own.

The far Right ultra-OPrthodox do their share of damage in Israel.

No one says you have to negotiate with terrorists.  Unfortunately for you, not all Arabs are terrorists.

Until closed-minded people like acknowledge that, there will never be peace.

You betray your religion and your tradition by generalizing too much.

Comment by The Logician on 8/27/11 at 10:15 pm

Nate,

Excuse my absence day of 27th. Gotta feed the tiger.

Visit in Boyle Heights once a week average since 2008; nobody misses you. But seems you’ve made
a conquest in Newbury Park….wherever that is. You and Norm appear to adorn your world-view through old movies. Logician, take note; they may be quoting you. (Out of context and mind,  of course).  Recall David Mamet wrote screenplay for “The Untouchables”.  Mamet since, undergoing a welcome epiphany.

Fortunately, Israel capable of defending herself, independent from Monday morning quarterbacks displaying bravado a half-world removed. Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/28/11 at 4:18 am

Nate—

Your comment about “the best of all worlds” shows you do not understand human relations.

The ugliness of the real world does not excuse you from better behavior…it mandates it.  You don’t do it for a guranteed payback, but to set the standard for human behavior.

What worked in a then small sphere if influence in 1948 does not apply now.

A mitzvah is not a good deed, it is a commandment.  Yyou do it without thought of personal rewards but because of the good in the world it will accomplish.

So don’t excuse your generalized animosity for self-defense.  Look inwards as well as outwards at the greater world.

Comment by The Logician on 8/28/11 at 7:36 am

Againster—

Let’s not let David Mamet spoil the homeymoon.

He is a poster child only for himself.  His arrogance has survived his “conversion” and I believe he has wrapped himself in devoutness without humility.

I admire his bravado, as well as much of his work, but he tolerates no other point of view.  Much like the posters here who do not really understand morality, and for whom intellectual honesty is an inconvenience.

Comment by The Logician on 8/28/11 at 7:47 am

Mame:
“Nobody misses me…” that’s because they are all dead”!! I miss the Brooklyn Ave. of the 40’s & early 50’s ...so who misses you on Cesar Chavez once a week since 2008???

Movies are merely a reflection of life ....various lives…nothing wrong with that…I sometimes prefer that view to the real one.

...and you’re wrong,  Israel needs all the support it can get to hold off the hordes of history trying to eradicate it !!!

Comment by Nate on 8/28/11 at 8:45 am

Logician:
3 homilies to live by:
The trick is to TRY for better behavior but don’t let your guard down…because the BadGuys just aren’t gonna play by your rules.
Try to be nice to everyone who’s nice to you ..don’t waste your “Mitzvahs” on people who don’t deserve them.
.....be careful of turning the other cheek too many times, you may find yourself nailed to your Star of David

Comment by nate on 8/28/11 at 9:04 am

Nate—

Even if the bad guys don’t play by your rules, you MUST play by your rules or you become them.

Did you support water-boarding, that form of torture Cheney & Bush refused to name correctly?

Terrorists do not deserve kindness, but we can beat them with the rules.

We don’t have to stack the deck against a two state solution by pushing radical Jews into contested areas with subsidized housing. .

I do not turn the other cheek and advocate retaliatory strikes if they can be targeted specifically.

Try getting out of your Rambo movie head and be a mensch.

Comment by The Logician on 8/28/11 at 11:42 am

Againster ...(who you against???)
Newbury Park is in Thousand Oaks…which is L.A. without smog, traffic, crime. grafitti and Jews. We did import a Nate & Al’s ...but they didn’t bring their sandwich skills with them…WORST Corned Beef Sandwich around!!!

Don’t knock Mamet or Dylan for that matter or anyone else who comes back to the fold…we can’t afford to lose quality people.

Israel has no room for error, they need all the help they can muster…that’s why they put up with their “friendly”  neighbors…Turkey, Jordan & Egypt.

Comment by Stormin'Norman on 8/28/11 at 1:12 pm

logician:
My Rules of Logic Say:..you be nice to everyone…‘till he attacks you ...then you take him out!!!
I’ve been a confirmed Democratic Liberal all my life…with a few exceptions.
One of them is: If I were interrogating a suspected terrorist that was responsible for an impending attack (and I’m 98% confident he’s guilty)...I would not only waterboard the SOB I would “Jack Bauer” him…and that’s called self defense!!!

By the way…Rambo Waaaas a Mensch!!! you gonna talk movies you gotta know movies!!!

Comment by Nate on 8/28/11 at 1:32 pm

Am boring myself with continued discourse gaining no headway.
Proving again, (brave) talk-cheap; wisdom…...priceless!

LOG-Kindly give me the number of “commandment” ‘Thou shalt do mitzvahs!’
      (Promise not to argue)

Anyone remember the topic?

Time to tilt-windmills of a different hue!
Note even Sir Norman of Newbury has wisely cast-down his lance.

Reading one more cliche (mine included)  guarantees terminal nausea. Ta!

Aunty Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/28/11 at 1:40 pm

againster…we dooo agree on some things.
...but you gotta admit that all this fightin’ & arguin’ has been a lot of fun, kinda like a big family sittin’ around a table eating and unloading on each other “Good Naturedly.
No one is going to convince anyone else of anything, that would be giving in (up)!!!

By the way…I looked up Rachel Corrie’s background. In one story she states that she was just a kid looking for some meaning to her life…she had no real axe or BELIEFS to grind..she just picked the wrong hotbed to plie her trade in!!! The middle East is a very tough place!!!

Comment by StorminNorman on 8/28/11 at 2:08 pm

Nate—

Joke all you want, you are a testorone filled macho guy who would rather talk tough than think smart.

You take out your enemies by the rules of war, lest you become as evil as your oppressor.

I humbly suggest I know more about movies than you, although I take them seriously instead of using them as a cheap justification for action.

You are welcome to go to Syria and take down all of Assad’s forces, but you won’t.  Not enough personal gain in it for you…because you don’t see the global picture.

Just the one on the small screen…too small to apply.

Comment by The Logician on 8/28/11 at 2:31 pm

S Norman,
Your words coaxed one encore from this too-often consummate bore

Incredible how a few artless sentences serve to illuminate a man’s true heart and the breadth his humor. Doubtless you are a fellow I’d have enjoyed swapping lies with at the PX.  You made this experience an amazing pleasure.  A priceless gift. Thank you!

We hopefully may do this again. Auntie Mame

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/28/11 at 4:29 pm

S Norman

Missed your Nate N’ Al’s comment. Want a real pastrami sandwich? We’ll go to Langer’s Deli; served on twice-baked rye and worth the trip from the idyllic (as you describe it) Newbury Park! Food as with politics, everybody’s got an opinion!

Further, I put no “knock” on Mamet. My comment “...Mamet enjoying a welcome epiphany…” LOG “got it” and didn’t like it for reasons known best to him.  Aunty Mame

P.S. Logician’s most amusing line (to Nate) “........I humbly suggest blah, blah, blah…...”
    The touch-word “humbly” )

Comment by Mr. Againster on 8/28/11 at 4:49 pm

aaaahhhh my Logician friend…“just when I thought I was out…you pulled me back in”!!!
In fact…most of what I say is tongue way back in cheek…although high testosterone…I’m a non macho artist type.
I really do get hot over Israel/Jewish questions. As for Assad…I would use the OSIRAK tactic as long as possible…if necessary followed up with the Sayeret Matkal.

As for MOVIES…That’s serious talk..I’m known as the Movie King…give me some (honest) background of your movie love…whatcha got???? What makes you think you have a better background than me??? You go to an occasional art flick???

Comment by nate on 8/28/11 at 5:11 pm

Mr. Againster:...right back atcha ... I’ll see you with the next JJ Story that strikes my fancy.

As for Nate ‘n Als…I went to the Rodeo N&Als; years ago and I remember it as pretty good. I always judge a deli by it’s Corned Beef or Pastrami Sandwich. The new one in T.O really flopped. Twice Baked Rye was small hard cocktail rye and their Corned Beef was end cuts chopped up….if should be renamed PacosTacos after the chef ! 

I’ve Been to Langers way back & it’s great…went there with our grown kids a few months ago but they thought the neighborhood was too bad ...sooo we ended up at Phillipe’s Downtown.

Comment by Stormin'Norman on 8/28/11 at 5:57 pm

My review of the Theatricum play “My Name is Rachel Corrie” appears online and in print at the Topanga Messenger: http://www.topangamessenger.com/story_detail.php?ArticleID=4663

Comment by Millicent on 9/08/11 at 6:05 pm

to compare rachel corrie, a self admitted lost bird just looking for somwhere to light…who in fact inserted herself into a situation she had no business being in….to Anne Frank…. you just caught me speechless!!! I don’t know what to say to you except it’s just Damn Wrong!!!

Comment by goldstein on 9/08/11 at 10:09 pm

I went to college with a lot of airheaded morons like Rachel Corrie. Good intentions are fine, but one needs a modicum of sense and maturity. Corrie, being unable to reason, placed herself in the employ of a genocidal group which used her. Had she lived, maybe she would have amounted to something, or maybe she would have stayed stupid. Her parents have used her death to make a career of Israel-bashing. What a pack.

Comment by Davidka on 9/19/11 at 12:14 am

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